• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

AQHA is promoting "extension of the gaits" aimed at judges!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    In Dressage, Cowhorse, and Hunters, you have to learn to ride to a minimum (about intermediate) standard to compete at all. In Western Pleasure, with the horses taught to crawl, that standard is more like advanced beginner, which opens up a much wider group of customers. Raising the standard to where WP horses would do 'real' gaits would eliminate some "write a big check, get on, and don't touch anything" clients. It would also make many more horses look better, and lessen the value of the few bloodlines with the temperament, body strength and conformation (like the DVD filly) to do a pretty good crawl naturally.
    Which is why this class was originally intended as an entry-level class (as I see from the history of it), just like cross-rails and pleasure classes in a hunter show weren't ever supposed to be the end result, but rather a way to get in the door.

    But people being what they are, that's not how it works.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
      Exactly - which means they are not really the same to the outward appearance (and I know for a fact that many dressage trainers would NOT consider your vaquero horse to be on the aids - they would be WRONG, and I do understand that, but that would be the case).
      Myopia isn't limited to WP...many people in all the different disciplines suffer from it due to a lack of willingness to see connections.

      That said, from the videos out there it seems like the vast majority of the WP/like world shares the same end goal...it's just not one shared by most of the rest of the horse world.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
        Which is why this class was originally intended as an entry-level class (as I see from the history of it), just like cross-rails and pleasure classes in a hunter show weren't ever supposed to be the end result, but rather a way to get in the door.

        But people being what they are, that's not how it works.
        A class that promises something closer to instant gratification will always be more popular than one that rewards consistent, diligent progress.

        It's the same reason that TB racing is what it is. What we know as modern racing was once the futurity event for a much more arduous race for older horses.

        The concept of a "World Champion" xrail horse would strike most as silly, yet people brag to high heaven about WP champions.

        Comment


        • #24
          Myopia isn't limited to WP...many people in all the different disciplines suffer from it due to a lack of willingness to see connections.
          Yes of course, that's why I was pointing that out. But people love to freak out about the AQHA and western horses here, without realizing that the same issues exist in their realms as well. Know what I mean?

          That said, from the videos out there it seems like the vast majority of the WP/like world shares the same end goal...it's just not one shared by most of the rest of the horse world.
          I wouldn't say the rest. Collection and Extension look very different to a 3 gaited or 5 gaited show saddlebred than they do a dressage horse.

          I don't think it's bad to point out the slight differences in nomenclature, no, but what I do object to, now that I know more about it, is that the differences are cause for denigration. That's what I object to.

          Comment


          • #25
            A class that promises something closer to instant gratification will always be more popular than one that rewards consistent, diligent progress.

            It's the same reason that TB racing is what it is. What we know as modern racing was once the futurity event for a much more arduous race for older horses.
            That's the nature of competition. It's why we have rookie soccer teams. I don't know that it's a horrible thing.

            Comment


            • #26
              I have a “friend” (friends in elementary school – now see her Facebook updates) who rides western pleasure. She rides paints, horse is off at the trainer, she goes out once a month for lessons. They do well, lots of blues at the regional shows.

              The things she posts on Facebook make me ill. “Great lesson today, I have to remember to “bang his head down!” “bumps do the trick” – with a photo of a horse in an indiscernible gait – head near its knees. Lots of photos of draw reins pulling faces down between knees… sideways crab crawling…. you get the idea.
              APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Plumcreek View Post
                I have said this many times, but it boils down to trainer revenue. In Dressage, Cowhorse, and Hunters, you have to learn to ride to a minimum (about intermediate) standard to compete at all. In Western Pleasure, with the horses taught to crawl, that standard is more like advanced beginner, which opens up a much wider group of customers.
                Case in point, the rider I mentioned rides just once a month (outside of shows) - and the other day was bragging how she went on a trail ride (on another horse, dear WP would NEVER leave the "pen"!) - and that her trainer would be SO PROUD! The trail included going up and down hills - and stepping over a log.

                Big accomplishment for this "rider" who shows and wins in WP.
                APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

                Comment


                • #28
                  What I like about the horse world is that there is something for everyone. Including your Facebook friend, the AQHA Select World Show Halter Exhibitor who could not jog himself, so horse was trained to jog very slowly up the line while owner hobbled the fastest walk he could, and Ann Call, who won World Championships in Pleasure Driving, but was in a wheelchair the rest of the time. It would be nice to see all pleasure horses going at real gaits, but outside of the obviously uncomfortable ones, I never get too upset anymore. I am just glad I got to show in Calif in the olden days when the class was a bridle horse class and was real.
                  Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
                  www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Well, be nice though. I was really pleased that I had gone out on a trail ride after a lifetime of riding horses had ended with some really bad PTSD ON my horse who is naturally a WP-type. He is, however, not very handy on the trail and he's learning. I do ride more than once a month though and I've never bumped a horse's face except to get them to stop eating a tree!!!

                    Anyway - at the AQHA show I attended I saw the same people riding in the hunter equitation, the western riding, the trail class and the WP over two days. Some people did appear to be beginners, others were really good. The only classes I didn't see much crossover with were the reiners (because they went into the ranch pleasure vs. the western pleasure, as you cannot cross-enter) and one HUS horse who appeared to be about 17.3h. I was amazed at how many times I'd see the same people in different events.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      what you said!

                      Originally posted by Plumcreek View Post
                      What I like about the horse world is that there is something for everyone. Including your Facebook friend, the AQHA Select World Show Halter Exhibitor who could not jog himself, so horse was trained to jog very slowly up the line while owner hobbled the fastest walk he could, and Ann Call, who won World Championships in Pleasure Driving, but was in a wheelchair the rest of the time. It would be nice to see all pleasure horses going at real gaits, but outside of the obviously uncomfortable ones, I never get too upset anymore. I am just glad I got to show in Calif in the olden days when the class was a bridle horse class and was real.

                      Also, I've ridden H/J and dressage and I find correctly riding a wp horse to be the most difficult test of my riding ability EVER since there are NO reins to rely upon, just my legs and seat.

                      And, rest assured that he also does horsemanship, trail (you can call it HMS over poles if you want, but it involves a VERY obedient horse in order to be done correctly-don't diss it until you've tried it), SMS and can side-pass, leg yield, shoulder-in, haunches-in and half-pass. He even does a reasonable copy of a canter piroette. We're currently working on flying changes. Eventually, when I'm bored with all this, I'll probably try HUS or maybe ranch pleasure. I don't know too many warmbloods that do it all...
                      Not my monkeys, not my circus.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Oh, OneGrayPony, I know the judge would never be asked back, I was just pointing out that the judge does not HAVE to place anybody.

                        I'm in Vermont, and at our small local shows, ONCE I saw a judge who had 6 ribbons to pin, and she pinned 3 riders. Three of them left the ring with nothing, even though the judge could've gone all the way to 6th place. It was a great thing to see!
                        "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                          Yes of course, that's why I was pointing that out. But people love to freak out about the AQHA and western horses here, without realizing that the same issues exist in their realms as well. Know what I mean?
                          For sure. However I think only Parelli discussions bring out more frothing and ranting than WP threads. There are legit reasons why both subjects aren't very popular outside of their relatively insular worlds.

                          Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                          I wouldn't say the rest. Collection and Extension look very different to a 3 gaited or 5 gaited show saddlebred than they do a dressage horse.
                          Again though, the only way they SHOULD look different is a result of conformation or show ring requirements.

                          Here are two 5 gaiter's added to my collage:http://www.easphotography.com/Intern...therGaited.png
                          Top is a saddlebred, bottom is my Icelandic. Both are much closer to the non-WP horse than to the WP horse. All still doing "trot" or whatever diagonal gait WP uses.

                          http://www.easphotography.com/Intern...therGaited.png

                          Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                          I don't think it's bad to point out the slight differences in nomenclature, no, but what I do object to, now that I know more about it, is that the differences are cause for denigration. That's what I object to.
                          What bugs me is that people justify doing things that are damaging to horses and justify it by "that's what other people are doing". The movement that WP demands is exactly counter to everything that preserves soundness in horses.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                            That's the nature of competition. It's why we have rookie soccer teams. I don't know that it's a horrible thing.
                            Nothing wrong with being a beginner. Splitting off the intro of a sport, wrapping it up as an entire discipline, and having people spend all their time there is the odd part.

                            If you took intro out of dressage, called it "Dressage Pleasure", and trainers no only specialized in it but spent their entire careers and bred horses specifically for it, that would be the equivalent. You can bet your wallet that the "sport" would evolve differently than the rest of dressage too.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by IndysMom View Post
                              Also, I've ridden H/J and dressage and I find correctly riding a wp horse to be the most difficult test of my riding ability EVER since there are NO reins to rely upon, just my legs and seat.
                              You sound like you're actually riding from your seat. The fact that the rules are so distorted that people have created an entirely new aid (the spur stop) that has no place in ANY other discipline shows how pointless reins are in the whole sport. Why have them at all then?

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Again though, the only way they SHOULD look different is a result of conformation or show ring requirements.
                                Well, but both are true of the western pleasure horse. If you look at the way they are built, that's typically how a good one moves somewhat naturally. I've seen babies on the longe line jogging very slowly and loping with a level (and slow) topline.

                                Look how hollow the back is on the saddlebred. Even though that's in keeping with the horse's conformation, that isn't very good. Compare a WP horse with a dressage horse in long and low. That might be a more apt comparison. There will still be differences, but it is more appropriate.

                                The spur stop is not widely used and is even controversial within WP circles.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I am somewhat bothered that people have said they have a slow moving QH and wanted to try ranch pleasure. When it was introduced, I was hopeful it would bring QH back to where it was meant to be..... a working horse! However, I have heard many people say they want to try ranch pleasure with their wp horse. I hope it does not become a disaster like WP!

                                  I hope to try Ranch Pleasure next year with my cow horse ( we currently show in American Stock Horse Association). Hopefully, the class preserve the integrity of the working horse and not devolve.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Do working ranches have a use for those slow moving downhill horses, or are they strictly bred for the show pen? If the later, I think there is a whole "western" industry that doesn't honor the western horse at all, but has invented a horse of its own.

                                    BTW, did anyone else note in the article the comment about slow being pinned high because it's DIFFICULT. I thought a pleasure horse was by definition easy to ride.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Went to a AQHA, ApHC and APHA show this weekend

                                      In the first western pleasure class the judges called everyone's attention to them, and announced that they WOULD be looking for forward moving horses in all pleasure classes. They did mention that they could/would call for the extension, however it might mean that only one or two horses in the ring might need to step it up a gear.

                                      And you know what, they actually did it! The hopping, sideways loping horses didn't place, and the horses who's riders were 'correcting' got nocked down a placing or two.

                                      I think the biggest thing about this show is the huge mix of competitors that were there. There were some top AQHA, APHC and ApHC horses along with top reiners, Arabians and 'open' show people. The AQHA breed show competitors that chose to do the crappy lope were easy to not place because there were quality horses that were loping correctly. It did however mean that by the time our horsemanship was called there were only 2 of us Novice Amateurs left, everyone else had packed up and gone home.

                                      One of the judges is judging the AQHA world show this year.....

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        What show was that? I went to a local show and heard a similar story. Lots of the "outside" horses were pinning and the regular bnt's with horses who had their heads on the ground did not pin.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          seat and legs

                                          Originally posted by aktill View Post
                                          You sound like you're actually riding from your seat. The fact that the rules are so distorted that people have created an entirely new aid (the spur stop) that has no place in ANY other discipline shows how pointless reins are in the whole sport. Why have them at all then?
                                          Hmmm, I don't think it's just seat. And spur "stop" is sortof a misnomer. Here's how it works. All with spurs. (mine are blunt rowels unless he's not paying attention-then we go to the pointy ones-my legs are old...)

                                          Light bumps to get started (stop to walk), another light bump or several to jog, outside spur roll to lope. Inside leg supports (calf). PRESS with both spurs at any gait to lift the belly and stay collected. This usually results in a slow down and a head lower (i.e., back up/head down). If I want to actually stop-close both legs and both spurs and lightly lift my hand (sound familiar?). Say whoa. If you're riding him, hang on because it's a dead stop from any gait!
                                          Not my monkeys, not my circus.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X