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Back cinch on western saddle?

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  • Back cinch on western saddle?

    So what's the purpose of that back strap/cinch? Some use it, some don't - why?

  • #2
    It's to hold the saddle in proper position on 3/4, 7/8, or full double rigging for roping or other vigourous use. It is rarely found on 5/8 rigging and never on centre fire. The back cinch should never be left loose and hanging but snugged up to the belly and the cinch hobble is never removed.
    Founder of the Dyslexic Clique. Dyslexics of the world - UNTIE!!

    Member: Incredible Invisbles

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    • #3
      “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Ok, which part is the cinch hobble?

        Why do I see lots of people not using the back cinch?

        Comment


        • #5
          The cinch hobble connects the front cinch and the flank cinch. You don't want the latter sliding too far back...horses take offense to that.

          I suspect you don't see a lot of people not using a flank cinch because you're not hanging around people roping and doing ranch work. You can get away with one just doing arena work like wp, reining, etc. type work. And you'll probably be OK on the trails although I still like one with a full rigged saddle. Helps on hills, IME.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree about hills - anything less than 3/4 rigging is fine without the back cinch but 3/4 to full should have it on. A saddle tipping up at the back is rather disconcerting and the rider may be upset in more than one way when that happens. Most common pleasure saddles used to be 5/8 down to centre fire rigging and probably still are and I suspect many of the rigging settings are gone except in high end, custom jobs now. Old saddles came in centre fire, 1/8, 1/4. 3/8, 1/2 and on to full double or rimfire by eighths.
            Founder of the Dyslexic Clique. Dyslexics of the world - UNTIE!!

            Member: Incredible Invisbles

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            • #7
              For those that know, what fraction rigging would you consider this saddle:

              http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps80ddb891.jpg


              I do have a back cinch for it, but even trail riding I have not found it necessary. I also need to get the mare in the picture used to the rear cinch.

              BTW, It is a rebuilt saddle on an old tree.


              Christa

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              • #8
                I don't use a back cinch about 99% of the time, but I am not roping or pulling loads with the saddle.

                As a rider, the back cinch is ALWAYS in my way for leg, heel or spur signals. I can kick that cinch all I want, horse doesn't feel or respond well thru that thick layer of leather. I HAVE spurred the back cinch to no effect, horse never felt spur either. So my saddle has the back cinch removed. I tend to want a VERY responsive-to-my-leg horse, so the back cinch has to come off my saddle to open that area of horse barrel, for him to feel my signals.

                The one percent of time my saddle does carry the back cinch, is when I am training a young horse to wear the saddle. I want horse to feel the back cinch as horse goes thru his "learning to wear a western saddle" training in his ground exercises. The feel of back cinch is NOT scary, grabbing horse in turns or when breathing hard.

                I always keep the back cinch snugged up, to prevent getting a hoof snagged, since back cinch WILL loosen as horse works. Seeing a horse with a hind leg thru the back cinch is BAD. Usually they fight VERY HARD with a hung up hind leg and it is almost impossible to get cinch loosened or off him before horse goes down.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Christa P View Post
                  For those that know, what fraction rigging would you consider this saddle
                  From the angle it looks somewhere between a full double and 7/8's.

                  Why:
                  http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=4s9Hs...%3D4s9Hsht4yd8

                  I use two alpaca cinches personally.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not sure how experienced OP is - and someone DID mention roping, but just to be a bit more specific for the OP, if necessary. The back cinch was part of the working saddles - back when the rider (and horse) were "doin' what comes naturally" on a ranch. When a 200 - 1000# cow hits the end of a rope that's attached to the horn of your saddle, the cantle is likely to raise up a bit. (that's an understatement) So to keep you from meeting said cow up close & personal, the back cinch helps keep the seat of the saddle down where you can sit on it. Of course, your horse may have a bit of reaction the first time that back cinch goes into action, so you may not be as sure-seated as you hoped.

                    And several who use the back cinch mention "snugging it" - that phrase reads (to me) a bit tighter than I was taught, which was just touching the horse. You would not want it hanging below the belly at all, as someone pointed out - a hoof caught between it & belly is not a good thing.
                    www.ayliprod.com
                    Equine Photography in the Northeast

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                    • #11
                      A double rigged saddle without a functional back cinch is like a suitcase with only one side buckled.

                      The front cinch snugs the front of the saddle but the saddle is designed to have a back cinch stabilizing the back of the saddle, not just when a cow hits the end of the rope but when you're trotting, turning, backing, walking down hills, trotting up hills, ect.

                      You're not doing your horse any favors to skip the back cinch or to leave it flopping out there in the wind either. And ours are tighter than just touching, not as tight as the front cinch but not lightly touching either. It's meant to secure the saddle; if it's loose it's like wearing sneakers with no shoelaces and it will sore up a horse.
                      “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        EXCELLENT ANSWER COWBOYMOM
                        I never ride without a rear cinch and it's alwAys snug. Front is snug, rear is snug, and neither is tight.


                        Originally posted by cowboymom View Post
                        A double rigged saddle without a functional back cinch is like a suitcase with only one side buckled.

                        The front cinch snugs the front of the saddle but the saddle is designed to have a back cinch stabilizing the back of the saddle, not just when a cow hits the end of the rope but when you're trotting, turning, backing, walking down hills, trotting up hills, ect.

                        You're not doing your horse any favors to skip the back cinch or to leave it flopping out there in the wind either. And ours are tighter than just touching, not as tight as the front cinch but not lightly touching either. It's meant to secure the saddle; if it's loose it's like wearing sneakers with no shoelaces and it will sore up a horse.
                        Kim
                        The Galloping Grape
                        Warrenton, VA
                        http://www.GallopingGrape.com

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                        • #13
                          http://5starequineproducts.com/cinch...cinch-natural/

                          Here is a nice alternative to the back cinch.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This thread reminded me of a movie I saw on TCM recently, the Barbara Stanwyck version of the Annie Oakley biography.
                            The bucking horses in the Wild West Show had their flank cinches fastened so far back you could see the angle of the strap. Obviously put that far back to cause them pain and make them buck. It made me think about how back in the old days of movie-making there were no animal-protection laws, and glad that nowadays (hopefully!) the cinches could not be arranged like that.
                            It must have been torture to those poor guys (geldings or stallions, obviously).
                            Rack on!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              NO no no... gads.

                              The bucking strap prevents the horses from running, it hinders the movement of their back legs so that they can't stretch out and run laps so they buck instead. It's like having your pants around your ankles. They don't buck out of pain. Most of them buck b/c they like it and it's a good gig.
                              “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                First issue...trained bucking horses don't buck because they're in pain. The know to buck because of the strap, but often wait until the gate opens even with the strap. They'll even sometimes stop bucking before the strap is removed (it's a job)

                                Second issue...rear cinches don't hurt in and of themselves. Plenty of outfitters train their stock to be fine with very rearward cinches, because it makes for a more stable load, and so they don't buck if a stick or something touches them back there.

                                This is hardly an unusual rig on a pack saddle
                                http://hardscrabbletimes.files.wordp...8/10/redbo.jpg
                                ...if a little unusual on a riding saddle.

                                You're anthropomorphising a bit too much.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  You missed my point. You did not see where that cinch was. It was not where it's supposed to be but was angled back so that it ran behind the sheath and in front of the scrotum -- where it is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE!

                                  Read the post, people.
                                  Rack on!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Bucking straps are not to make a horse 9or bull) buck, but to even the bucking, so the horses will give the riders an even chance to do good and be scored fairly.
                                    Those are adjusted loosely, as too tight one will make a horse (or bull) freeze and fall down behind.

                                    A good chute man knows just how much to hold the strap for each individual bucking animal so it is not too tight and lose a cowboy a good chance to show how he can maintain their rythm however the animal bucks.

                                    At least that is what I hear them talk about, not that I ever rode any rough stock myself.

                                    Most western saddles are better than English ones as far as having more area to distribute the weight on their back and flank cinches are there to keep that much of a saddle from slipping around behind and making horse's back sore.
                                    I have seen people that ride without flank cinches on saddles that not rigged for it have horses with almost bare spots where the back rubs the hair off.

                                    Doesn't matter if you ride in an arena and not for long or hard.
                                    If you ride longer and on uneven ground, maybe that can be a concern.

                                    I tell you a story, we had this really neat young horse that was coming along as a tie down roping horse.
                                    In those days, the scores were very long so by the time you got to your calf, you were really flying.
                                    The roper got the calf caught and stopped and turned around and the front cinch latigo on the right broke.
                                    All that was holding that saddle was the flank cinch and every time the calf jumped around, that back cinch was grabbing the horse hard and he would take one half buck and stand there holding the rope.
                                    The roper was long down and running and caught and tied the calf and then returned to the horse, that was still holding the rope and doing his best to ignore that flank cinch strange pulling back there.

                                    Right then, one of the BNT ropers offered a mighty sum for that horse.
                                    No, he was not sold and some years later he was word champion roping horse in his association.

                                    He is the horse that Grandma still rode at 84 and a time or two he still half bucked a bit, is who he was if something set him off.

                                    What you don't want to happen is your cinch hobble to break, that will put that flank cinch in the same place bucking straps go and there, a horse is tickled into bucking, doesn't even need to be tight, unless you have worked with a horse to teach them about ropes first and kept that training fresh.

                                    Many reining horses are trained and shown without a flank cinch because they really get down and curling under themselves in their slides to a stop and some like for them to be completely free to do so, no flank cinch tight there.
                                    Other trainers don't think a well adjusted flank cinch does anything other than keep the saddle in place better.

                                    Two horse people, three opinions.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by aktill View Post
                                      This is hardly an unusual rig on a pack saddle
                                      http://hardscrabbletimes.files.wordp...8/10/redbo.jpg
                                      ...if a little unusual on a riding saddle.
                                      That's a great rigging system for mules and donkeys. By putting that back cinch behind the largest part of the belly, it helps keep the saddle from sliding forward. On one mule I used to own, that rigging arrangement worked so well that I was able to do away with the britchen completely.
                                      "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                                      that's even remotely true."

                                      Homer Simpson

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by GallopingGrape View Post
                                        EXCELLENT ANSWER COWBOYMOM
                                        I never ride without a rear cinch and it's alwAys snug. Front is snug, rear is snug, and neither is tight.
                                        Yup. I always keep my rear cinch snugged up the way is should be. You'd be surprised how many people I see out on the trail that have them hanging so far below their belly you wonder why they have it. Not doing them any good and can be dangerous. I rely on cinches, breastcollar, and crupper to keep my saddle in place.
                                        Yogurt - If you're so cultured, how come I never see you at the opera? Steven Colbert

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