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Interesting comment in Western Horseman about "buckaroos".

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  • #21
    They work fine for me.

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    • #22
      hold on, I have to switch computers, this little chromebook doesn't cut paste well...

      Just pictures of Montana cowboys from the late 1800's and early 1900's... from the Montana Historical society.

      The wade tree was designed after a no-name using saddle from pre 1930's...It was modified and used by Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance. There is no reason for me to not think that such a useful low-riding tree wouldn't have been used or designed before they became popular. Back in the day people just made saddles that worked well for them; obviously someone way back had the "wade tree" idea.

      That said, of course the whole buckaroo or dude look wasn't the historical using look. We call it dude here, when the jeans are tucked into the boots and the wild rag is bright pink, flat brimmed hat, the whole look but truth be told, it's often the new "going to town" look of a working horseman now. We have two very good friends who make their living training horses and running wagons/teams, daily horsemen, and they have it duded up pretty good! But they wouldn't say that's how the horsemen were dressed in the 1800's either.
      “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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      • #23
        Interesing thread!

        Years ago, maybe the 80's?, Western Horseman did a series on cowboy equipment, dress, etc and how they varied throughout the country. It was really interesting to see the different clothing, tack, why it was used and the origins.

        There also seems to be a difference in what is fashionable in the rodeo cowboy world as opposed to the working ranch cowboy world. At least there used to be. I haven't followed rodeo in years, but when I was, Wranglers with the patch on the back pocket were the thing with the rodeo cowboys, but many of the working ranch cowboys I knew wore Levis or whatever was cheapest, most comfortable, and wore the best.

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        • #24
          Weren't trees originally made from forks in available trees? They's some splindy trees - about six of them- in Oklahoma.

          Maybe as the technology evolved, the Wade could evolve?

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          • #25
            This is the third picture I meant to post; there are tons of them on the website. I also look at pretty much anything Charlie Russel as a photograph. Some of those saddles sit low like a Wade. I like how a wade fits a horse's shoulders and I like how the horn is down out of the way. I don't worry about trying to fit any image; I am a hodgepodge of fashion statements any given ride.

            http://cdm103401.cdmhost.com/cdm/sin...id/1670/rec/33

            The saddle all the way to the right looks wadish except that the horn is way up to the guy's chin!

            Pictures from http://cdm103401.cdmhost.com/cdm/sea...r/title/ad/asc

            This history notation places the original wade from the 1880's...

            http://www.freckerssaddlery.com/wade...ee_history.php
            “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              I wonder, if the saddle horn is too low, when you have to pull some critter, the rope may cut your leg, not enough room there?

              Grandpa and Grandma going to town to have their baby, 1918:

              http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ch142004-1.jpg

              The horse he is riding was a remount stallion offspring out of a ranch mare, later sold for an officer's mount, went to the war in Iran.
              Most cowboy horses in those days had plenty of TB in them, so took a bit of a more narrow and higher gullet than today's horses tend to.

              A frame fronts made more sense for those horses, although by then, many had swells to help keep the cowboy in there in rough going.

              Comment


              • #27
                cool picture-I still have part of my great great grandfather's fly sheets for his teams.

                True on the TB-I've known a few old cowboys and they all say their favorite "long horse" for a long days ride is a qh/tb cross.
                “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                Comment


                • #28
                  Craz, that's a beautiful horse. And a great saddle, if it's well made and fits horse and rider well. And there's no reason NOT to go rope with it. But it isn't a true Wade, it's rather a wade-looking (or Wade influence, or Wade-ish) saddle made on a regular tree with a post horn, with rounded skirts. Really, if it suits you and the horse it would be foolish to go looking for a 'real Wade' to replace it.

                  One difference you can't see once a saddle tree is covered to make a saddle, is that a Wade tree has more surface area in the front of the bars. This is where folks sometimes say, a Wade will fit horse's backs better. But it isn't much discusses, because you can't see it.
                  More discussion from tree-makers:
                  http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=8781

                  The cantles are simply made to the size/height that the rider prefers. I have also noticed that popular WAde-ish saddles today have a big, 4 and sometimes 5 inch cantle, many times with a pencil-roll. Ray Hunt rode in a low-cantle saddle with a Cheyenne roll- a low cantle won't beat up your backside if the horse bucks, and the Cheyenne roll gives you something to hold on to if necessary:
                  Ray horseback, notice the very low horn and pommel:
                  http://www.oak-tree.us/blog/wp-conte...9/03/image.png
                  And you can see just the back of the saddle here, note the low cantle with Cheyenne roll:
                  http://www.rayhunt.com/

                  For those who don't know- pencil roll on cantle:
                  http://www.ranchworldads.com/classif...?listing=21404
                  and Cheyenne roll cantle:
                  http://www.ranchworldads.com/classif...p?listing=5099


                  It's easy to make a saddle that LOOKS like a Wade. You can really easily see a slick fork, a post horn, and rounded skirts. But those are not what makes a saddle a Wade.

                  Most saddles 'back in the day' when Tom Dorrance and his buddy Clifford Wade took an old saddle-tree design to Hamley's in Pendleton to make their iconic saddle...were form fitters, very high pommel saddles that did indeed suit themselves to the narrow, high withered horses common to the times. Also common was a rather broncy horse, and that high pommel is exactly the same design used today for PRCA Bronc riders, but the rodeo cowboys don't have a horn. The big pommel really holds you in the saddle when things get Western, and nobody wants to be dumped 12 or 20 miles away from the ranch headquarters, or the chuck wagon.

                  So the whole Wade saddle deal was not very popular for a very long time, likely because there was obviously no big swell to keep you horseback should your horse spook or buck.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Not quite true on the Wade issue. While MOST Wades are a little different in the bar area, it's technically just a fork style:
                    http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/ind...f-trees/wades/

                    As for the earlier discussion about appearance, there's always going to be a group who feel that certain megabuck dress and tack is most appropriate or traditional, and then look down on others who don't follow along ("the heathens").

                    That said, there's also going to be another group who feels that their combination of mismatched tack store rejects entitles them to feel superior to those who spend more money on their gear.

                    Neither has an correlation to horsemanship ability. Both are carrying chips on their shoulders. Both are HILARIOUS to those of us that don't judge by appearance, since their horses tell more about their abilities then their tack ever does.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by aktill View Post
                      Not quite true on the Wade issue. While MOST Wades are a little different in the bar area, it's technically just a fork style:
                      http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/ind...f-trees/wades/

                      As for the earlier discussion about appearance, there's always going to be a group who feel that certain megabuck dress and tack is most appropriate or traditional, and then look down on others who don't follow along ("the heathens").

                      That said, there's also going to be another group who feels that their combination of mismatched tack store rejects entitles them to feel superior to those who spend more money on their gear.

                      Neither has an correlation to horsemanship ability. Both are carrying chips on their shoulders. Both are HILARIOUS to those of us that don't judge by appearance, since their horses tell more about their abilities then their tack ever does.
                      And this is true for my saddle. It is a solid wood tree made by Baties, the saddlemaker made it closer contact and lighter weight for his version of a Ladies Wade. I like it, it fits us both. I prefer it without the bucking rolls, but I will ride with them on cows.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by aktill View Post

                        Neither has an correlation to horsemanship ability. Both are carrying chips on their shoulders. Both are HILARIOUS to those of us that don't judge by appearance, since their horses tell more about their abilities then their tack ever does.
                        Being judgey and superior over other people being judgey and superior is still being judgey and superior.

                        But yes, the horse is the final judge.

                        It's still extra hilarious when someone can't ride out of a paper sack and they're decked out in thousands of $$$ worth of the finest fancy buckaroo gear available.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by gaitedincali View Post
                          Being judgey and superior over other people being judgey and superior is still being judgey and superior.

                          But yes, the horse is the final judge.

                          It's still extra hilarious when someone can't ride out of a paper sack and they're decked out in thousands of $$$ worth of the finest fancy buckaroo gear available.
                          I remember an old quote, I think about field hunters, but it applies anyway (not exact, but close):

                          "Don't judge the person by trailer or rig, but by the horse that comes out of the trailer."

                          Christa

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