• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Event Announcements now available FREE to all registered users

We just reconfigured the Event Announcements forum to be available as a free service for all registered forum users. See the thread stuck at the top of that forum for more information.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

So...the "Spur Stop"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    My show horse came with a spur stop. I'd never competed at breed shows before so had no experience riding a horse trained that way. I show him in Western Riding and Horsemanship, as well as a little Trail. I don't do Western Pleasure. But I also show in the English flat classes, and he knows the difference between both types of classes. When I'm riding him English he moves forward off my leg, and in the Western events he will slow down when I squeeze. Touching with the spur means Whoa Right Now!

    He's also proven to be a great trail horse, out on real trails, in the mountains and quickly figured out that a trail ride means walk out energetically and enjoy the scenery.

    I've watched that video of Jason Martin on Harley a hundred times. Western Riding is my favorite class. Those cones come up really fast, and you've got to keep your pace and your bearings throughout.

    Comment


    • #42
      This has been in interesting discussion.

      Thank you to all that have offered what they knew.
      Always learning something new.
      Very enlightening.

      Comment


      • #43
        I know you've already been answered, but I show western pleasure and all-around horses on the Paint, QH and sometimes POA circuits. The spur stop is beyond common in the pleasure and all-around events, as are advanced spur cueing. You're avoiding using voice and rein aids as much as possible, as it can detract from the overall picture. Of course, riders who use their leg and spur aids incorrectly are just as conspicuous, but I digress... It's nearly impossible to find a breed show calibur pleasure or all-arounder that does not have this button.

        I train my own horses with the occasional assistance of some trainers. We are their only clients who do NOT use a spur stop. I haven't put one on my horses because I have been sharing them with young children, and that isn't a good combination! However, those kids are older and I will be progressing to more leg cues at this point. It's another tool to have in the box. My horses neck rein, stop at whoa, etc. But in the show pen, a good "leg aid" horse can definitely give a more polished presentation.

        Originally posted by rtph View Post
        I have been riding and training quarter horses for many years, and have shown in reining, cutting, cow horse, stock horse, roping, and i have NEVER encounterd a horse trained to stop with a spur aid. In fact I've never heard of such a thing from anyone I considered to be a learned horse person. So I was very surprised to see the above post from Bluey.

        I would like to know who the trainers are who are training this.

        Where do these things come from????????

        Comment


        • #44
          My experience showing in the western disciplines was over 40 years ago, as well. I knew nothing of the spur stop back then, at least not in California. But I do think it just didn't exist then. Following that, I took years off from showing to finish school, and then got into other disciplines, primarily eventing and dressage. About 10 years ago, I bought a nice QH gelding for a trail riding mount, though I was still dabbling in dressage. So, eventually, I start riding this fellow with spurs--and everything, I mean everything, fell apart. He'd go slower, and slower, and slower ... at some level, he knew I was asking him to move on, but another part of him knew that if he did, he.would.die. I could almost see the smoke coming out of his ears from the cognative dissonance. But I was clueless as to the cause, until I heard about the spur stop nonsense--suddenly it all made sense.

          It's since become pretty clear that this horse's earlier training was full of many of the darkest aspects of the WP industry. And it's taken a long time to truly get him past it. I actually celebrated the time he finally let loose, flipped me a bird and bucked me off when I was wearing spurs, lol, because I knew that old stuff was finally dead and gone.

          But the spur stop (or, really, spur slow) button is very real, make no mistake.
          "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

          Spay and neuter. Please.

          Comment


          • #45
            I've had a couple of horses that came with a spur stop and, first of all, the words themselves are kind of misleading. Plumcreeks description of a "calf stop" is much more accurate. I rarely have to go to the spur-- both horses responded before it got to that point. For me it's really a half-halt that can be intensified when necessary.
            I only showed one of the horses, in wp and horsemanship, and he was responsive most of the time. But occasionally, when he was a little on the muscle, I literally had to clamp on like a boa constrictor for the whole class--not fun but he did listen.
            The other horse is my current one. I don't show him, just putz around for fun, and he has taught me far more than I've taught him, including the subtleties of a good spur stop ( I really do hate that term). In reality,. I'd say its really only useful on a wp horse.

            Comment


            • #46
              So with a spur stop trained horse, how do you ask for a lengthened jog/lope as now asked for at shows?
              Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

              Comment


              • #47
                With your seat and a verbal cluck. At least, that's how I ask my horse to extend.

                Comment


                • #48
                  It gets a little tricky because calf pressure also means "keep your head down". So I don't completely release my leg, and add a little cluck and were good to go.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    There's nothing refined about a spur stop. It just changes beginner-level riding from "kick to go, pull to stop" to "cluck to go, kick to stop".

                    Since apparently it's more penalize-able to use your hands than your legs, it gives those sorts of people continue to let the horse blow through their seat aids and gives a physical definition to "slow down".

                    Note I use "beginner" here in the horsemanship sense of the term. Lots of people earned lots of money sans horsemanship because the events they choose require little horsemanship, or the judges can't recognize it.

                    Speed control in a refined rider and horse combination is a function of the life in the rider and at worst on seat aids.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by aktill View Post
                      There's nothing refined about a spur stop. It just changes beginner-level riding from "kick to go, pull to stop" to "cluck to go, kick to stop".

                      Since apparently it's more penalize-able to use your hands than your legs, it gives those sorts of people continue to let the horse blow through their seat aids and gives a physical definition to "slow down".

                      Note I use "beginner" here in the horsemanship sense of the term. Lots of people earned lots of money sans horsemanship because the events they choose require little horsemanship, or the judges can't recognize it.

                      Speed control in a refined rider and horse combination is a function of the life in the rider and at worst on seat aids.
                      Have you ever shown in wp, trained, even ridden a wp well trained horse?
                      Well, it is all seat first, the leg is secondary, unlike what you seem to think, for what you have posted.

                      Nothing in life is as easy as it seems when someone that is really good at it does it well and makes it looks so easy.

                      The voice of experience here, (but not in wp!).

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                        Have you ever shown in wp, trained, even ridden a wp well trained horse?
                        Well, it is all seat first, the leg is secondary, unlike what you seem to think, for what you have posted.
                        Yes!!! and it can be difficult! Even at the lower/open show levels the precision and perfection needed can be mind-boggling.

                        I'd never been around the stock horse world really before, and so when I first moved here, and I got the chance to ride a well-trained WP horse (well technically an all-arounder) I jumped at it, and you know what? It was HARD! It's all leg, seat, intention, weight, and precision.

                        After my lesson I was glad to go back to my hunter, because after the WP horse I was TIRED! I mean, WP may not be *my* choice of show career, but I have certainly grown to respect it.

                        I'm hoping to get to do some QH all around stuff with my filly in the future. I think it'll be a fun new world. (even if we won't have a spur stop. lol!)
                        The ninja monkeys are plotting my demise as we speak....

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          If it is done right it appears that you are doing nothing !

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            I show apps and did 99% of the training on my home-bred hunt seat horse. Before our world show a couple of years ago I sent him to a trainer about 10 days before we left (they were hauling him to the show for me). The trainer rode him for that week and a half, plus a week or so at the show and I was appalled when I got on him for the first time a day or so before my first class. I had NO idea how to ride my own horse because she'd started putting a spur stop on him and he was terrified to go forward. To say I was a little pissed is a bit of an understatement - she knew I was starting to jump him and having a horse that sucks back when you put your leg on in front of a fence just didn't thrill me. He had that super-crawly walk that felt like he was on a death march and if you took your outside spur out of his side at all during the canter he would quit. It was horrible. He usually gets the winters off anyway since I don't have an arena and I think the best thing for him was to sit for a while and start over in the spring enforcing the FORWARD. I understand the concept behind the spur stop but it's just not for me.
                            It's not about the color of the ribbon but the quality of the ride. Having said that, I'd like the blue one please!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              [QUOTE=drawstraws;6799928....... I had NO idea how to ride my own horse because she'd started putting a spur stop on him and he was terrified to go forward. To say I was a little pissed is a bit of an understatement - she knew I was starting to jump him and having a horse that sucks back when you put your leg on in front of a fence just didn't thrill me. .[/QUOTE]

                              I have to say my USEF - R judge H-J trainer was THRILLED with the effect of the "calf-stop-reversed seat button I had on my big, forward Appx QH. Even pressure on his sides with calf and heel (neutral seat) did mean go forward, but wrapping legs around and opening hip angle a bit meant suck back and slow down, and, applied after a jump, would re-balance the horse without pulling on his face.

                              My current horses (a Skys Blue Boy and a Regal Lark) both will back up from calf pressure and reversed seat alone, no rein at all. Ha! If I tried an actual spur stop, I would be on the ground.

                              An actual spur stop is Western Pleasure and Western Riding specific where no responsive lengthening is needed. (Why they hit the log).
                              Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
                              www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                I have read several posters over the years mention that, when they get too old to ride, they will get a wp horse and crawl along safely in the arena, still enjoying a bit of riding in the very slow lane.

                                Like with so much we do with horses, there are many that think what we may do is absurd, just as we may think some others do is.
                                Wp is no different.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I never showed breed shows, only open local stuff. But years ago I did a little
                                  of everything with my horse, WP included. Never even heard of a spur stop until very
                                  recently.

                                  Then a good friend of mine got fed up with her dressage horse, and found a little
                                  WP horse and took some lessons on him with a big local trainer who does AQHA and
                                  APHA shows. She was telling me about the spur stop and all I could think was WTF ?

                                  Anyway, I've ridden this little WP horse a few times and it's kinda neat, but I think it
                                  would likely work better on a horse that naturally *wants* to go very slow. It goes agaist
                                  pretty much everything I've learned about riding so was not easy for me to wrap my
                                  head around it.

                                  It was interesting and weird and not something I'd want on any of my horses, but I also
                                  don't ride WP

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                    Have you ever shown in wp, trained, even ridden a wp well trained horse?
                                    Well, it is all seat first, the leg is secondary, unlike what you seem to think, for what you have posted.

                                    Nothing in life is as easy as it seems when someone that is really good at it does it well and makes it looks so easy.

                                    The voice of experience here, (but not in wp!).
                                    I can't even WATCH WP for 2 mins without my fiance needing to drag me away from the rail before I make an unfortunate comment. It's anti-horsemanship - a discipline that not only encourages, but requires movement that is damaging to the long-term health of the horse.

                                    To ride one would be to condone what is done in that ring, so thanks, but pass.

                                    I have had the pleasure of riding (and making) ranch horses that don't need you to spur them to stop (?!?) or clamp your legs around the horse to stop the swing of its barrel.

                                    I didn't say that ALL WP riders ride like that, but I'm directing this at those that feel the need to install a spur stop. Why install a button that ensures the horse will be useless for anything other than WP? So again I say, if you need a spur stop to show effectively, you're not ready to show. A lack of preparation never stopped anyone, but to each their own.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by aktill View Post
                                      So again I say, if you need a spur stop to show effectively, you're not ready to show. A lack of preparation never stopped anyone, but to each their own.
                                      Actually, I would call it over preparation myself.
                                      The ninja monkeys are plotting my demise as we speak....

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by aktill View Post
                                        I can't even WATCH WP for 2 mins without my fiance needing to drag me away from the rail before I make an unfortunate comment. It's anti-horsemanship - a discipline that not only encourages, but requires movement that is damaging to the long-term health of the horse.

                                        To ride one would be to condone what is done in that ring, so thanks, but pass.

                                        I have had the pleasure of riding (and making) ranch horses that don't need you to spur them to stop (?!?) or clamp your legs around the horse to stop the swing of its barrel.

                                        I didn't say that ALL WP riders ride like that, but I'm directing this at those that feel the need to install a spur stop. Why install a button that ensures the horse will be useless for anything other than WP? So again I say, if you need a spur stop to show effectively, you're not ready to show. A lack of preparation never stopped anyone, but to each their own.
                                        There is plenty I don't like that others do with their horses, but I respect they can do what they want, if I like it or not.

                                        I would guess there is something you do with your horses that others may object to also, but are too polite to mention it.

                                        Around here I have seen it mentioned, good advice I think, when you find yourself in a hole, it is smart to quit digging.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          My QH is spur broke (showed on the QH and Palomino circuits) and honestly it's confusing to me. I normally wear spurs or a crop because he is so lazy but there are days where I don't wear spurs. I've been working with him since July without spurs and we're getting there.
                                          We could all take a lesson from crayons some are sharp, some are beautiful, some have weird names, and all are different colors, but they still learn to live in the same box. Unknown.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X