• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Event Announcements now available FREE to all registered users

We just reconfigured the Event Announcements forum to be available as a free service for all registered forum users. See the thread stuck at the top of that forum for more information.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Riding Western... is not a matter of ????

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    All I know is I definitely walk differently when I'm wearing my Wranglers and my western spurs. Jingle-jangle-jingle.

    As for expectations, I couldn't agree more that I expect my horses to be good now that I ride almost exclusively western. I think on how I babied and babysat my horses in my former riding life, and now I just shake my head in disbelief. I knew people who insisted their horses could not be tied at a horse show, so they took someone with them to HOLD their horse all day.

    Go to any western event and you'll see horses not only tied, but tied close together, for hours, being patient and quiet. Why? Because that's their job.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      When you ride western, the definitely is no discussion like this...

      http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=364807
      The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

      Comment


      • #23
        Unless you're working cattle for a living with your horse, "western" riding is about your preferences for accoutrements. Nothing more.
        __________________________
        "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
        the best day in ten years,
        you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by 7HL View Post
          When you ride western, the definitely is no discussion like this...

          http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=364807
          LOL, while I do consider myself mostly a western rider, I can NOT ride in jeans. OUCH!! I live in my riding tights while at the barn.

          In fact, I cant believe how many people do ride in jeans. I am not talking riding jeans, but regular, normal seamed jeans.

          I rode in jeans once a few months ago, didnt plan on going to barn, it was NOT comfortable at all. My calves were red for a few days. Maybe if I did it often, they would "toughen up", but why??

          Tights are sooo much more comfortable. You can get light ones for summer, and toasty warm ones for winter.
          Riding is NOT meant as an inside sport, GET out of that arena!!!

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by 7HL View Post
            First why in a discussion of western, does "english" keep coming up? And I am talking about riding. Maybe it's because many do not understand what "riding western" really means.
            I suspect some of it is because there have been a couple of posts about how in "English" riding it's okay for your horse to be a complete idiot about everything outside an arena (and some stuff inside it too) and Western is soooo much better because they don't put up with that - except that the arena-bound-pampered-princess English horses are a subset that even other folks who do English styles of riding often find annoying. So then you get other posts from people going 'hey, wait a minute, that's not English riding that's someone letting their horse get away with being an idiot!'

            I personally find it hard to comment on what the differences might be because there's also a discrepancy between the people I know who ride Western and the people I know who ride English in terms of their goals, and so I can't tell if the differences I observe are because of the disciplines or because of the different goals. I mean, an English hunter show barn is a much different place than an English eventing barn, you know? So if all of the people I know who ride Western are way more laid back and relaxed about things (even stuff I think is stupid, like wearing helmets - why would you not wear one? Do you not like your brain?) is that because Western riders in general are like that, or because I've never been to a Western show barn, and if I went there it'd be much more like the English show barns I've seen, just with different tack?

            All of that said - the trail thread is pretty interesting in terms of attitudes.

            ETA: I can't ride in jeans either. I don't have to be wearing breeches or tights, but regular jeans are just uncomfortable.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
              1. Horses that do their jobs without freaking out. They don't need a lie down because an ATV just passed by.

              2. Riders that do their jobs without freaking out. Horse shies -no biggie. They don't need a lie down because there is more than one horse in the ring.

              3. Relaxed, comfortable, fun-loving, ride-for-kicks-and-giggles.
              I've always found English to be the same way...maybe not the ring riders but most of the normal horse owners. One western thing I noticed was that too many of the male riders figured testosterone taught them all they needed to know about riding, horse care and general barn knowledge (seeing too many bits put in backwards, saddles/bridles/etc. horribly fitted and a total lack of riding theory besides "kick him again")
              "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by nikelodeon79 View Post

                So... here I am, with over 20 years riding experience and I still really have no idea how to ride correctly. I can stay on a horse and get him to go and do where I want, but start talking in terms of "collection" and being "on the bit" my eyes sort of glaze over. In Western (at least in trail), if your horse ambles along on a completely loose rein, that's a good thing. .
                Well, "collection" and "being on the bit" mean different things and involve achieving different ends (constant contact versus loose rein with a curb only engaging if the horse raises his head). But when I started riding other than poking around on bareback pony rides with baling twine on the halter as a bridle, I took Western lessons to start. Specifically eq and pleasure for Arabs as it was an Arab barn, but still, western tack, neck reining, etc. What you're describing ("whatever works, no lessons") is to me not really riding WESTERN as being the casual backyard horse owner. If you lived in an area where English was the norm you'd be toodling around in an old English saddle. Riding WESTERN is just as much a skill set as riding hunt seat or dressage.

                Or rather, riding in a Western discipline is. If you're just poking around in your own backyard, it really doesn't matter what kind of tack you have. Reining, cutting, gaming, WP, etc. all require the same kind of training as jumping, eventing, dressage, etc. And specialized horses-if I want to take up cutting, I don't think a somewhat arthritic ex-racehorse is going to work in the long term. A cutting-bred QH is probably going to be more useful.

                "Western" just means you are using conventionally Western tack. "English" just means you're using conventionally English tack. Neither one is a discipline itself. Riding Western just means your saddle's got more leather on it.
                Author Page
                Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                Steampunk Sweethearts

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by 7HL View Post
                  When you ride western, the definitely is no discussion like this...

                  http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=364807
                  I ride exclusively Western and prefer knee patch breeches with tall Western Boots and perhaps my chaps or chinks which fit wonderfully well over the breeches.

                  I don't like to ride in jeans as the seams rub.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Hmm. Riding is riding. I'm the same rider whether I have a western saddle, english saddle or no saddle. For me, riding western is a matter of riding in a western saddle. I change minor things, but have my heels down, eyes up, and am balanced and correct.

                    7HL, what do YOU think western riding is a matter of?
                    Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
                    White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

                    Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                      I've always found English to be the same way...maybe not the ring riders but most of the normal horse owners. One western thing I noticed was that too many of the male riders figured testosterone taught them all they needed to know about riding, horse care and general barn knowledge (seeing too many bits put in backwards, saddles/bridles/etc. horribly fitted and a total lack of riding theory besides "kick him again")
                      The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I do like the "horse and rider need to do their job in a relaxed fashion" attitude in good Western riding.

                        That said, for every uptight English Dressage Queen who is terrified of anything that might spook a horse, there seems to be a Good Ol' Western rider who does not tolerate any sort of forward or, God Forbid, normal reaction from a horse. Trot too big? Shank that horse! Won't bend exactly when you want it to? Tie the bridle to the stirrup! Your 4 year old doesn't want to stand still? Tie her to the wall and scare her until she gets too tired to freak out.

                        I've seen both types of rider, and both are bad.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          "Riding Western is not a matter of ..."

                          ... buying a western saddle because that's the "REAL American way to ride"

                          ... buying a western saddle because English saddles are "English" and this is America

                          ... buying a western saddle because you don't want to take lessons, you just want to get on the horse and go

                          ... buying a western saddle because it has a horn you can hang on to when you get on the horse and go

                          ... buying a "snaffle" (oops, a "broke" bit) that has shanks so is really a curb but the guys at the tractor store told you any "broke" bit was a snaffle

                          ... buying a bit that will cause your horse to break at the "pole," get his hind end up under him, bend at the ribcage, lift his shoulder, and that will "put some bite" on him when he throws up his head when you pull on his mouth

                          ... "Kick him to make him go" and "Pull on the reins to make him stop"

                          Riding western IS a matter of learning to ride properly in a western saddle with a bit that is appropriate for your riding activity and for your horse!

                          (And when I started out doing dressage, using an English saddle, and was told about the Youtube videos of "Dressage Meets Western" etc., I always fell in love with the reining horses and their riders rather than the dressage ones. So now I do western dressage!)
                          Founder of the People Who Prefer COTH Over FB Clique
                          People Who Hate to Rush to Kill Wildlife Clique!
                          "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            After having taught lessons for many years I can say it is much easier to go from western to hunt seat than the other way around.

                            Western is about limited contact, riding from the seat, not the reins, trusting the horse to do their job and to do it quietly.

                            In my experience riders from other disciplines have a difficult time giving up the contact because they feel they are giving up control.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Luseride View Post
                              After having taught lessons for many years I can say it is much easier to go from western to hunt seat than the other way around.

                              Western is about limited contact, riding from the seat, not the reins, trusting the horse to do their job and to do it quietly.

                              In my experience riders from other disciplines have a difficult time giving up the contact because they feel they are giving up control.
                              After having taught lessons for many years I can say that it is much easier to go from a good rider on any discipline, knowledgeable of the technical aspects of riding, not the more seat of the pants rider, than a get on and ride type rider, that has to learn an independent seat and some polite communication with the horse.

                              We can find just as many bad riders, for many reasons bad, in either way of riding, just as we can find good ones, in both camps.

                              We are comparing apples and bananas when we focus on the saddle or discipline, forgetting that there are good riders and bad ones in all we do.
                              I would say many beginner English riders are just that, beginners and advance as their ability and time to learn permits, just as western riders do.
                              Western riders have in the USA many more seat of the pants, kick and jerk riders than English ones, because there are more of them.
                              Just go to any playday and be ashamed how so many there ride.
                              That doesn't mean all western riders or even all playday riders are that bad, just as finding some arena flowers, be it western or English, that can't ride outside, means their discipline makes them a bad rider because they are confident only in arenas.
                              They are just riders of limited skills.

                              The focus here is more on what some posters experiences are, forgetting the horse world is so much more than any one kind of riding is better than another because of the kind of pants you like to wear.
                              Last edited by Bluey; Aug. 28, 2012, 09:54 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Yes I know I'm generalizing, but there it is.

                                Quoted from my post. Just for clarification.

                                Paula
                                He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                                  "Western" just means you are using conventionally Western tack. "English" just means you're using conventionally English tack. Neither one is a discipline itself. Riding Western just means your saddle's got more leather on it.
                                  Exactly. It's a preference in riding tack or "attidude," as 7 said.

                                  Another poster said good riding is good riding. The same is true if you're just asking your horse to cart you around. And since we're generalizing, I see more riders of the latter type in western tack.
                                  Last edited by mp; Aug. 28, 2012, 10:18 AM.
                                  __________________________
                                  "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                                  the best day in ten years,
                                  you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by 7HL View Post
                                    Riding Western... is not a matter of ????


                                    • buy a western saddle
                                    • owning a quarter horse
                                    • changing the bit I ride my horse in
                                    • not wearing a helmet

                                    Is it an attidude?

                                    What's your thoughts?
                                    Yes, it is an attitude.

                                    I totally get the question, but I doubt I am eloquent enough to put it into words the masses would understand.

                                    However, I think MrBlueMoon said it best when I was struggling with a decision about whether to sell a horse that wasn't suiting my western needs or to just switch to english.

                                    His answer.... "But honey, you are a cowgirl."

                                    ::shrug:: He was right. It's not the saddle or the bit, or even riding in jeans without a helmet (although I always wear mine). It's just something "je ne sais quoi".

                                    And that "something", I suppose, is what has made folks stop me when I am shopping in Tractor Supply and ask "Do you have horses?" and I am not in the equine section, nor wearing anything that screams "cowgirl". Or the night the biker dude came up to me in a bar and asks me out of the blue the same question. (and no, it wasn't a pick-up line... we spent the better part of the next hour discussing his minis and my quarter horse!)

                                    I dunno.... I can't explain it but this is a great thread.
                                    Last edited by bluemooncowgirl; Aug. 28, 2012, 10:13 AM. Reason: added a thought
                                    Alis volat propriis.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      I'm not really sure what "camp" I fit into - all of the riding lessons I've ever taken were coming from the English disciplines. And I've known people whose heads would explode at the thought of some of the things I do regularly with my own horse.

                                      When it comes to tack, I'm kind of a "mutt."

                                      I ride my TWH in an English bridle with small silver conchos where the browband meets the crownpiece (bought them at a craft store and put them on because I liked how they looked). The bit I use is a Robart pinchless walking horse bit. No massive 10" long shanks or anything dangly or wacky about the mouthpiece, and my horse goes light and relaxed in it.

                                      And I ride in a western saddle (Tucker trail, Cheyenne model). Honestly, I could do without the horn. It just seems to get in the way most of the time, but everything else about the saddle I love, so I'm going to hang on to it for now.

                                      When it comes to attitude, I have certain expectations for my horse. He is expected to ground tie. He is expected to wait quietly when we encounter a lot of debris on trail, and I have to dismount in order to clear it so that we can get through. He is expected to stand quietly if I have to dismount on trail for a "potty break." He is expected to walk on quietly if I drag a tree limb alongside him while I am on his back, to move it off the trail. He is expected to share a hitching rail with other horses, without creating any "drama," and to just mind his own business. He is expected to cross streams, whether they're an inch deep or up past his knees. He is expected to go out on trail "solo" or ride in a large group without getting buddy sour or barn sour.

                                      It is not necessary for him to spook at things like noisy machinery, cars, steamrollers, tractors, mowers, ATVs, dirt bikes, feral children, barking dogs, model airplanes, loud music, construction projects, large rocks, wildlife, hikers, hunters, mushroom-ers, or any of the other things we encounter in the real world.

                                      There is no bubble-wrapping, there is no coddling, there is no psycho-babble about his "personality" or attributing his behavior to the alignment of the stars or whatever other excuses people use. I don't freak out about stuff, so he doesn't either. I don't expect the world to come to a halt because it might bother or scare my horse. He does what he does, and he does it well, and that's all I ask of him.
                                      Please copy and paste this to your signature if you know someone, or have been affected by someone who needs a smack upside the head. Lets raise awareness.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        FWIW, I was at a cattle clinic this weekend and half of the riders were in helmets. Men included! I think some attitudes may be changing...

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Sorry, 7HL. You're going to have a discussion over whether a person should ride in jeans here, too.

                                          I can only wear jeans if my skin has toughened up from riding 3 or 4 hours every day. I almost exclusively wear breeches, and if it isn't hot I wear chinks over them.
                                          I ride in order to manage a breeding herd of several hundred cows. I suppose that makes me a 'real' western rider, though I am just learning how to handle a rope. It would have been a lot easier if I had been roping things since I was 4!
                                          Usually I ride in a western saddle, and a short ride is 1 1/2 hours and probably covers several hundred acres.
                                          I was an event rider who did a few hunter and dressage shows, whatever was fun, in a past life (late 80's and early 90's). Now I live on a cattle ranch. I still prefer my OTTB and how he moves and covers ground, to the average ranch horse. Luckily Mr. OTTB is really cowy and starting to be smart with a rope, but even in buckaroo tack and a wade saddle my OTTB stands out from the crowd.

                                          "On the bit", "collection", etc when done correctly is the same whatever tack the horse is wearing, and whatever clothes the rider is wearing. Western riders tend to go about trying to get their horse there, in a different manner than English riders do, and their mistakes tend to look different (behind the vertical, pulling constantly on the reins for english, head way down low and evading the bit on a loose rein, but still behind the vertical for western; both with a bunch of weight dumped on the forehand).

                                          Another 'english vs western' difference I see is that western riders tend to think that a horse who is compliant trying get the heck out of your way, because you'll punish him if he does it wrong, is 'correct'. English riders tend to gloss over 'minor tantrums' or problems so the horse doesn't get all wound up. Neither of these strategies is truly effective at getting a horse completely OK with something that initially bothers him, but I do think the strategies reflect the genetics of the horses typically used: In my opinion, Quarter Horses have been bred to tolerate a lot, a 'quiet mind' and a horse that doesn't get too uptight about anything is actively bred for in the stock horse culture. I know the 'age of the Thoroughbred' may be past, since warmbloods tend to populate the sporthorse world in this country now, but many english riders grew up in a culture where a horse might have all kinds of talent to jump, yet be high strung. So training strategies were developed to avoid getting the horse really upset. Nowadays, the western performance (cutting, barrel racing) horses can be plenty hot or high strung, and the hunter rings populated with tolerant, quiet warmbloods, but I think the culture and trainer tendencies are still there.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X