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QH pedigree gurus?

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  • QH pedigree gurus?

    I'm a TB person but we have this QH pony and I am curious if anyone can tell me what her pedigree 'says'.... She is Davis Moon Shine by Button Top Hank out of Misty Tatum by Impressive C Bar. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say other than Impressive a ways back it looks foundationish..... That is, absolutely no names I recognize from my mild acquaintance with QH racing, pleasure, cutting or reining bloodlines!

    Kinda wish she was 'Wenglish' bred as I have a very nice TB stallion, but if she's foundation that would be sacrilege right? (did I mention she is an English fox hunting pony?).

    Jennifer
    Third Charm Event Team

  • #2
    That pedigree is a hodgepodge of lines with different sizes, conformation and abilities.
    Horses bred like that can be excellent themselves but not bred true at all, because the gene lottery has too many numbers and some of them antagonistic to each other.
    If you decide to breed her, chose a stallion that is known for evening up genes.

    With her having Impressive in there, has she been tested for HYPP and is she N/N?
    That is the first question needing an answer by anyone thinking of breeding to anyone with Impressive in the background that has not previously been cleared, with the Impressive bred lines already N/N.

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    • #3
      What's her registered name?

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      • Original Poster

        #4
        Davis Moon Shine. Don't know her HYPP status, but it's a moot point. She's a nice horse (sound, great disposition, nice mover, nice jumper) but not truly exceptional, so the only reason to breed her would be if her bloodlines were particularly sought after. (and then I'd still feel compelled to get some kind of show record on her first....!)

        Jennifer
        Third Charm Event Team

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ThirdCharm View Post
          Davis Moon Shine. Don't know her HYPP status, but it's a moot point. She's a nice horse (sound, great disposition, nice mover, nice jumper) but not truly exceptional, so the only reason to breed her would be if her bloodlines were particularly sought after. (and then I'd still feel compelled to get some kind of show record on her first....!)

          Jennifer
          If you don't know if she is N/N, the first indication you may have that she is after all N/H could be finding a dead horse one morning.

          You need to know to, if she is not N/N but any kind of positive, start being proactive and keeping her on the appropriate diet so she won't have attacks.

          No, her lines are not sought after in any AQHA discipline, although they are some nicer horses in there, they seem to be far back.

          Whatever she does well doesn't mean she will pass it on necessarily because of her breeding, it is too mixed for that.

          Now, there are middle of the road type activities that such horses do fine, where competition is not so much about inherited ability but training.
          Any nicer horse can do well in those, especially a well trained, consistent horse.
          The best cutting, western pleasure, racing, etc. specialist bred horse won't have any advantage in those classes over any one other horse out there, other than good management, training and experience showing gives them.

          Now, some of the ranch horses we bred were bred like that on purpose, to then see what we had with each one and have middle of the road type horses that most could handle and use.
          Specialist horses tend to be more narrow in their abilities while great at what they were bred for.
          You can also end up in a genetic bottleneck easily breeding for extremes.
          Today, with so many horses out there, breeding the average horse is not necessary any more.
          There are so many anyone can buy one already there and have a known quantity, not a guess of what one may be.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ThirdCharm View Post
            Davis Moon Shine. Don't know her HYPP status, but it's a moot point. She's a nice horse (sound, great disposition, nice mover, nice jumper) but not truly exceptional, so the only reason to breed her would be if her bloodlines were particularly sought after. (and then I'd still feel compelled to get some kind of show record on her first....!)

            Jennifer
            HYPP can be symptomatic even if they're heterozygous. If she's Impressive-bred, get her tested.
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            • #7
              Honestly even if she's NOT Impressive bred get her tested. If it's a QH or has QH in it within 5 generations I would personally have it tested. Too many paper passing to take ANY chances on ANY horse.
              Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
              Originally Posted by alicen:
              What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.

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              • #8
                Get the horse tested. Don't come here with some lame excuse or reason why there is no need.

                I've watched a horse with positive Impressive go thorugh the attacks. The horse came from a rescue. Rescue didn't have it tested. The horse could have been Impressive's twin. It wasn't until after a couple of seizures that the woman's vet had the horse tested. The rescue just said the horse was an unregistered QH so they didn't know, but they didn't want the horse back. So it was special diet and medictation for this poor horse. It was a sad story.
                The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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                • #9
                  HYPP is never a moot point. Even if she is non symptomatic now, she could have an attack at any time.

                  Personally, I would only test a horse if they were Impressive bred and from a line that was not proven to be N/N. If you start getting paranoid about papers being incorrect you're going to start down a slippery slope. I have seen "warmbloods of unknown breeding" turn out to be QH crosses. I guess what I'm saying is that you have to pick your battles. Now, if you have a grade horse that is super bulky, I'd test it for HYPP in a heartbeat. My point is that any horse even if it is not called a Quarter Horse on its Coggins could be a QH cross and there is always that tiny chance that it's Impressive bred...

                  We breed a lot of Impressive bred N/N horses so I'm pretty up to date on who is N/N, so if you provide an allbreedpedigree.com link to your horse, I could probably let you know if it was a proven N/N line or if you should get your horse tested.
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                  • #10
                    You can always google the horses in her pedigree, and come up with photos, accomplishment, other get, etc of her family.
                    Man plans. God laughs.

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                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      The Impressive line is through Impressive C Bar as has already been noted.

                      Thanks to all the reminders about the fix that irresponsible breeding practices have landed the breed in, I shall have her checked. Although a 50/50 chance of passing on a horrendous genetic defect should provoke considerations of spaying and euthanasia, not diet. JMHO.... See first line of paragraph.

                      Jennifer
                      Third Charm Event Team

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Impressive C Bar's sire is N/H. I can find no results for Impressive C Bar himself. You can call AQHA and see if he has a notation on his papers...... or test the mare to be sure.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ThirdCharm View Post

                          Kinda wish she was 'Wenglish' bred as I have a very nice TB stallion, but if she's foundation that would be sacrilege right? (did I mention she is an English fox hunting pony?).

                          Jennifer
                          Well, yes, there is the current breed terminology in which 'foundation' has a certain connotation.

                          But don't forget that TB IS the foundation for quarter horses, notably Diomed, TB imported in the colonial period (and also foundation for Standarbreds, Saddlebreds, and others).

                          So I personally would not be put off by the sacrilege if I had a good idea that a cross of any two individuals (taking bloodlines, conformation, performance into account) would result in a good horse. (Though I echo concerns about the Impressive blood, I just plain avoid that line like the plague).

                          My own little foxhunting pony (okay, she hasn't hunted yet, but she will one of these years!) is just over 14h and well bred for cutting. I amused myself once on allhorsepedigree tracing her back through the likes of Eclipse and Diomed to the Godolphin Arabian and the Byerly Turk. I don't have any plans to breed her, but if I did, the quandary would be produce a good cutting/ cow horse or go play with a tb or connemara cross.

                          Actually, a stud I showed for some folks back in the 60s, classic QH conformation for the time, was 7/8 tb- when back to Man O'War through War Admiral three times.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ThirdCharm View Post
                            The Impressive line is through Impressive C Bar as has already been noted.

                            Thanks to all the reminders about the fix that irresponsible breeding practices have landed the breed in, I shall have her checked. Although a 50/50 chance of passing on a horrendous genetic defect should provoke considerations of spaying and euthanasia, not diet. JMHO.... See first line of paragraph.

                            Jennifer
                            The diet info was not to control the disease so your horse could be bred, it was to control the disease so your horse could LIVE. There is no need to run around killing perfectly fine horses who could live useful lives, giving enjoyment to their owners. Goodness. Just be responsible about the shortcomings and needs of whatever horse is in your care, and educate yourself about hereditary defects that might affect them. Same as with any animal.

                            It is not good practice to knowingly breed a horse who has a heritable and deblitating disease simply because it muscles them up to win in halter classes, but stuff of that nature isn't unique to the QH breeders.
                            Never explain yourself to someone who is committed to misunderstanding you.

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