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What is considered a good mover in a western horse?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by sonomacounty View Post
    What is considered a good mover in a western horse (western pleasure and horsemanship type) ?

    Now, do I correctly call a western equitation class a horsemanship class?

    In my opinion, there is no such thing, or at least not winning. The peanut roller look, and disjointed 4 beat canter/lope just appalls me - totally is a travesty and a crime against a horse to force it to move that way.
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.


    • #22
      Unfortunately, the good ones are not being forced to move that way. They are being bred to move that way. I did not really realize that until 15 to 20 years ago a friend sent a video of her yearling in the pasture and he was moving that horrible way naturally. I do have to admit tho that it looked a little better without a rider than they do with a rider.


      • #23
        I had a paint that moved that way naturally, even in the pasture on his own When we got him I had hoped for a hunter, a normal english style show hunter. We had no intent to ever show in breed shows. He always had his damn head in the dirt, was super slow even though he had a huge stride and had this horrid canter that looked just like the WP horses. Tried for months to get him to do any sort of proper movement. If you could get him out of the ring you could get a good canter/gallop out of him but he just wanted that aweful way of going most of the time, which is not comfy to ride nor conductive to jumping. Gave him away to a trail home, where he is quite happy to toddle around the local paths a few times a week.


        • #24
          One of these....



          APHA I CD SPOT


          • #25
            What a loaded question You would think riding is riding ...but as everyone has pointed out, there's a big difference between what wins and what many people feel is correct.

            I really struggle with today's western pleasure ... I use to think western pleasure was more like a 'warm up' for the reining. But every event has become so specialized, I don't see any of it changing ... personally, I like my horses to come with 'all the gears'.


            • #26
              But every event has become so specialized

              It has, but if I were to pick one dicipline it would be reining or cutting or trail.

              I prefer a good looking/minded versatile horse, My mare, is as close as you will get to a all arounder these days, not only my opinion but also out of the mouth of Kay Simmelink who bred my mares dam and Barlink Macho Man. My gelding is reining/cutting bred, grandson of Dots Nu King (third video). I would never shut my horse down or manipulate it in any way I felt was unnatural or detrimental to the horse to compete. I'm thinking of taking my gelding to a NRHA show in August because I think he would do well, but bottom line is, I want to enjoy my horses and I want them to last me a long time.
              Last edited by RRD; Jun. 25, 2012, 02:50 PM.
              APHA I CD SPOT


              • #27
                I'm a pretty big fan of Green with Invy

                Invy Nekkid:

                Invy at a show:

                And once again, there *are* nice moving, round, up under themselves WP horses. But you've got to be willing to open up your mind and see it.

                Personally, I hate the way a lot of reiners are going now with their overflexed heads cemented to their chests or between their knees, and all of that poppy hock action when they lope, but... to each his own.
                The ninja monkeys are plotting my demise as we speak....


                • #28
                  Originally posted by propspony View Post
                  His poll was below his withers during this whole video!! Perfect example of judges not pinning to the standard.


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by propspony View Post

                    And once again, there *are* nice moving, round, up under themselves WP horses. But you've got to be willing to open up your mind and see it.
                    I am sure there are nice moving round and under themselves western pleasure horses. (What I am not sure is that is what is winning out there right now.)

                    I am not sure why one has to open up their mind to see it. If it is there, it can be seen.
                    If the horse is shuffling and looks lame and has to leap to take a every step you want me to squint and tilt my head and pretend I am seeing something else and call it opening my mind so I can proclaim it the horse actually using itself?


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by sonomacounty View Post

                      Do you mean navy or a lighter blue? Just wondering.

                      What color coat is normally seen in AQHA hunter hack?
                      Kind of a medium blue. I don't remember coat color rules at the time but they were something very limited- muted, 'hunter' tones can't remember which colors they specified.


                      • #31
                        I personally prefer the HUS type movers in stock horse breeds. The WP just looks to forced, while the HUS horses look more natural. We look for a deep driving hock and flat kneed front leg, and "slow" legged.

                        I have a grandson of Zips Chocolate Chip... looking at this video of him http://youtu.be/tLuejUCg5AI at about 1:45... if only that was the lope that you saw now in WP.

                        I am a big fan of Hot Diggity Joe horses. I enjoy watching how naturally they move. http://youtu.be/KunqXFyhZig This horse is one of the rare ones that also has a superior in western pleasure as well... http://youtu.be/rjDGwr7bibM

                        I am also a fan of The Ultimate Fancy. http://youtu.be/yDNEq3SQQfw

                        I can tell you my mare carries her head level/low naturally. There is a HUGE difference in what she feels like when she is heavy on her forehand, versus when I get her to drive deep and collect. Her head position remains unchanged but I can feel when she is not lifting through her back and driving deep with her hocks.


                        • #32
                          I like the HUS movement better that the WP horses as well....

                          I am also a fan of The Ultimate Fancy. http://youtu.be/yDNEq3SQQfw
                          like ^^^

                          I had a Pacific Baily bred mare for a long time that I really liked.....
                          APHA I CD SPOT
                          APHA BDB FASHION DESIGN


                          • #33
                            Totally beyond me how most of the videos listed here can even be considered "western horses" anymore. What the heck good is a horse that moves so bizarrely that you couldn't even get a job done on them?...and that goes for both pleasure and reining horses alike in a lot of cases!

                            I'll bring up an old phrase that was attributed to Ray Hunt I think and that's "if I saw a horse of mine moving like that in the pasture, I'd call the vet." That goes for "natural" or unnatural movers like.

                            The problem with both those classes (and any of the offshoots) is that they're one-step removed from having a point. As such, people can delude themselves all they want about the horses being collected, or where the horse should carry its head, because there's no objective way of measuring any of it. If the horse is never asked to work a cow though (or jump a fence or whatever), it's only a bunch of people jawing about rulebooks and breeding horses that can't get out of their own way. Sad.

                            If you want to see a proper future QH bridle horse in the making, look here:

                            Pretty mover, smart, and can do an honest day's work.


                            • #34
                              I think the point of these classes is that some people just find it fun riding around with a quiet, well broke horse... and most of us find out riding a horse like that isn't nearly as easy as it looks. Not everyone wants to do a higher risk sport like working cow horse or jumping.

                              I can also tell you that I mare I showed successfully also spends many many hours out gathering cattle. We've done long 12 hour days and I appreciated her smooth gates, and softness that allows me to get things done.

                              "Western horses" is a pretty huge category when you think of all the events it contains... barrels, ropers, working cow horse, cutters, reiners, wp, western riding, trail, etc. When people ask about movement in stock horse breeds you are going to get opinions relating primarily to WP and HUS horses because those are the classes where movement is judged. Not everyone's cup of tea, I understand.

                              RRD my very first mare was a Pacific Bailey horse too... so they are favorites of mine too!


                              • #35
                                RRD my very first mare was a Pacific Bailey horse too... so they are favorites of mine too!

                                I guess it would be debatable if a HUS horse is a "western horse" but I would say that would be determined by what they are made of. My mares sire got his ROM HUS, but he was a Jetalito, Hot Scotch Man bred horse, still a "western horse".


                                My mare looks pretty moving all by herself and is nice to ride, that is all I care about.

                                My little cutting/reining bred gelding is a really nice mover as well, lope to die for and smoooooth, I'll take them both.
                                APHA I CD SPOT
                                APHA BDB FASHION DESIGN


                                • #36
                                  I must say that the horses presented in the videos look very odd indeed to me. I am not in general a western rider although I dabbled a bit back in the day. The horses that I rode did not resemble the ones in the video in movement, carriage, presentation etc. I would have to say that I would not aspire to that style in my horses. However it is evidently what is considered proper movement in this era of WP and Horsemanship. Could someone who is much more in the know than I explain why this is what is looked for today. It would seem to me, that even if you were riding strictly for pleasure purposes that you would like to reach your destination before the turn of the next decade. I am really not trying to be smart, but collected does not to my minds eye mean practically stationary...


                                  • #37
                                    . It would seem to me, that even if you were riding strictly for pleasure purposes that you would like to reach your destination before the turn of the next decade.
                                    Funny! That is a valid point!
                                    APHA I CD SPOT
                                    APHA BDB FASHION DESIGN


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by RRD View Post
                                      I prefer a good looking/minded versatile horse .... I would never shut my horse down or manipulate it in any way I felt was unnatural or detrimental to the horse to compete....bottom line is, I want to enjoy my horses and I want them to last me a long time.
                                      Exactly!! To me if the movement is right to start with -- you can slow it down or speed it up ... you shouldn't have to alter it...form and function should be universal.

                                      RRD, I like those all-around horses too My senior stallion's dam was one of those type -- APHA Champion, 3 time Youth Versatility Champion, 3x Youth Champion, 2 time Reserve National Champion (Westen Pleasure 14-18 and Western Horsemanship 14-18), she had 15 Superiors and 35 ROM's in everything from Hunter Under Saddle, to Barrels, to Western Pleasure. Earned over 1800 performance points and over 300 halter points. The one thing everyone always said about her was she was a 'people's horse' ... you can't beat a good mind.


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post
                                        A Certain Vino is the reigning Senior WP Champion and his accomplishments speak for themselves. http://aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/C...-Pleasure.aspx

                                        One Lazy Investment also has quite the show record behind him: http://aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/C...-Pleasure.aspx

                                        I'm also a fan of this stallion, and can say from personal experience that he is pretty cool to ride: http://nodoubtimlazy.net/videos.html

                                        Lindsey McMullen and Huntin For Money had a GREAT horsemanship go last year to win at Youth Worlds: http://aqha.com/Showing/Youth-World/...semanship.aspx

                                        Carey Nowacek and Certify This Chex also had an amazing go at the 2010 Youth Worlds: http://gohorseshow.com/article/AQHA/...Champion/30250
                                        Note: Lindsey McMullen won third this year as well.

                                        Hope this helps.
                                        My 2nd dd broke one of Nodoubtimlazy's half siblings, and under saddle she was very nice to work with. Once in a while, she would get witchy, but hey...She moved beautifully. I don't like pleasure horses usually, but if I was to buy a WP prospect, Lazy Loper would be my choice as a sire.

                                        She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown


                                        • #40
                                          Some of the jogs shown here are ok, but the lopes are broken. A horse's head should float with his body in a lope- too many or all of the lopes shown, the head is out there on a stalk, disconnected. And that NoDoubtImLazy horse? If he's not navicular in the front, I'm a monkey's uncle. That trot across the grass? AYE AYE that front end is not right at all.

                                          I'll take one of these instead.