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Spinoff: Foundation Quarter Horse / Quarter Horse and Registration / Registries....

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  • Spinoff: Foundation Quarter Horse / Quarter Horse and Registration / Registries....

    REGISTRATION / REGISTRIES

    How important are breed registries?

    I opened a thread about Foundation Quarter Horses....

    It could have been on any other breed. I choose Quarter Horses because I own two (of my three) QHs that happen to be registered Foundation. I also opened the thread on QHs because it is the most common horse used in western events and by western disciplines.

    I have noticed when registration is often discussed many people say they has an unregistered **** fill in the blank ****. In my opinion an unregistered horse is just a grade horse. Then, there are always the made up registries that have popped up over the years to give some legitimacy to grade horses. There are also some that fear reqistries and registration for many reasons.


    I am not discounting the fact that there are many great grade horses.



    How important are breed registries?
    The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

  • #2
    I don't think anyone should breed horses unless they are eligible for some type of registry, if you want a grade horse then go rescue one. That being said, I don't think anyone should breed registered horses unless they know exactly what they are doing. No matter what you are breeding they should be good looking, correct, good minded horses that can perform. Anytime you line breed anything genetic problems will pop up, but that's what we have genetic testing for.
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    • #3
      I have a tb cross and a show bred Tb. Neither can be registered with the jockey club. Sure, I could register them with some random registry...but why?
      Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
      White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by RRD View Post
        I don't think anyone should breed horses unless they are eligible for some type of registry, if you want a grade horse then go rescue one.

        I don't agree, I believe that by crossing FOR A PURPOSE can produce some great working horses. I'm certainly not advocating crossing any set of working genitals, but some of my best riding horses are crosses, bred for a purpose.

        Example, Haflingers, people are breeding them bigger and bigger, so there are 15hh and up horses being registered, which I find incredibly sad, I would rather keep the breed true to it's short and beautiful standard, and let people who want a Haffy, only bigger can selectively out cross to get it.
        I'm not sure if I grew out of stupid or ran out of brave.

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        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by RRD View Post
          I don't think anyone should breed horses unless they are eligible for some type of registry, if you want a grade horse then go rescue one. That being said, I don't think anyone should breed registered horses unless they know exactly what they are doing. No matter what you are breeding they should be good looking, correct, good minded horses that can perform. Anytime you line breed anything genetic problems will pop up, but that's what we have genetic testing for.

          Valid points!



          Originally posted by Haffy View Post
          I don't agree, I believe that by crossing FOR A PURPOSE can produce some great working horses. I'm certainly not advocating crossing any set of working genitals, but some of my best riding horses are crosses, bred for a purpose.

          Example, Haflingers, people are breeding them bigger and bigger, so there are 15hh and up horses being registered, which I find incredibly sad, I would rather keep the breed true to it's short and beautiful standard, and let people who want a Haffy, only bigger can selectively out cross to get it.
          There can be unintended consequences in cross breeding.

          Then there's the group that crosses for color. That is always a good reason.
          The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RRD View Post
            I don't think anyone should breed horses unless they are eligible for some type of registry, if you want a grade horse then go rescue one. That being said, I don't think anyone should breed registered horses unless they know exactly what they are doing. No matter what you are breeding they should be good looking, correct, good minded horses that can perform. Anytime you line breed anything genetic problems will pop up, but that's what we have genetic testing for.
            I agree with RRD and want to clarify that by some type of registry I mean a legitimate one. Sure there are plenty of joke registries out there that I wouldn't count. We one time bought a mare that came with a set of "papers" from the Spotted Horse Club of Canada or something like that. It was a piece of paper printed off the computer with a dollar store looking gold star sticker in one corner... That was the biggest joke registry I have ever seen.

            Horses bred for a purpose can usually be registered with a registry for that purpose such as the AWS.
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            • #7
              If no one cross bred many breeds to this day would not exist. Including your beloved quarter horse. Yes registered horses can be nice, but Ive seen plenty of registered horses I wouldnt take for free. I dont support overbreeding, just breeding with a purpose. Sometimes its nice to know lines/ temperments of those lines etc, but sometimes you take it with a grain of salt.

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              • #8
                I think registries are important. However, I think there are some things that are rather goofy. I MAY have opinions that are rather strange and not well accepted - so...meh.

                I believe registries are really important to establishing a breed type. I'm not a breeder, but the breeders of hounds and horses that I've talked to (who are good) are all breeding to a type of horse (one that largely suits their preferences and needs). So I don't mind the "new" registries that accept horses from any bloodline so long as there's a rigorous inspection process and horses outside of the standards are not accepted.

                That's how breeds start. Mixing different blood for a type. Setting that blood through linebreeding etc to create an actual breed.

                I don't mind "new" breeds. There's always something to be tweaked and bred for, if you study type, minds and conformation.

                I don't like the fact that some breed registries will allow you to register unconditionally a horse with no inspection. This is where I feel that some of the "purebred" registries (particularly here in the US) have fallen off of the bandwagon.

                Without inspection for type, a horse that is conformationally incorrect for whatever reason can be bred and introduced into the bloodlines, and indiscriminate breeders can charge a "premium" price to unsuspecting buyers. The registries here are combating that a little bit with performance incentives etc, but I don't think that's enough to stop the bastardizations of the breed.

                I'm not with the people that think if it's not purebred it shouldn't be bred. Some of our historically most amazing foundational stallions have been outcrosses. However, I *do* think that if it's not built for the job it's supposed to be doing, or has a genetic defect, then it shouldn't be bred.

                If I were to want to start a registry, I would start by identifying the type. For non-breeding animals I'd add inspection requirements for provisional registration and performance requirements for full registration. For breeding animals I would additionally add progeny requirements (e.g. a certain number of foals would have to meet inspection requirements and type requirements) before acceptance into the main book and full registration. All other registration would be provisional.

                Of course, that assumes that that's not so daunting that it creates other linebreeding issues.

                I say this not as a horse-breeder (I'm not) but as a person with a fairly good understanding of breeding livestock (goats are my current livestock breeding adventure). You *want* to introduce new blood into a breed for genetic diversity and hardiness.

                *shrug* Like I said, it's not going to be a popular stance.

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