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Horse Trainer vs. Send Horse Away

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  • Horse Trainer vs. Send Horse Away

    Alright, So I recently bought my first colt. He is about 8 months old right now and I plan to breed him in the future. He's gorgeous, growing well, comes from a line of western horses. None are any big league stars (a few foundies) but they all competed well and I believe their restrictions came into play due to who owned them, not their own limitations. I already have people asking me about breeding him and while I don't want to breed him early, (want to wait till he's around 5-6) I don't want to limit his abilities because of my own abilities being lesser. I say this because everything i've learned is by growing up around other horse trainers, not by any formal training and I fear I may not be good enough for what i want him to be.

    Because of this I'm looking into option. So far im seeing 2, hire a trainer to come out and work with me while I work with him, or send him off to a training academy to get a good start on him. (Im looking at the university of Findlay. I grew up by them and I've competed against them before and I've seen their stables and am comfortable with it because my family is close and can visit him frequently to watch his progress). If I sent him there I think I would hire a trainer for when I got him back to keep up on what he learned.

    anyways, Im asking opinions on those who have done either. (Hiring a trainer to come out to where you are or sending a horse away) and how it went, what the pros and cons are of it.

  • #2
    Have you tried to ask that in the breeding forum?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
      Have you tried to ask that in the breeding forum?
      Would that be the Sport Horse Breeding?

      I wasn't sure if that would belong, but I can repost there. Are there ways to delete posts?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by FaithView View Post

        Would that be the Sport Horse Breeding?

        I wasn't sure if that would belong, but I can repost there. Are there ways to delete posts?
        The Moderator can move it over, but really it belongs both places, here if you are aiming for answers in the western world, there for breeding.

        If you want to campaign a young horse, generally people look for a good trainer that will help them make those decisions, what to do and when.

        In the performance western world, most are started early spring they turn two.
        It is several months then before anyone even know if they will make any kind of a show horse, much less breeding material, stallion or mare.

        Halter horses have early classes, longe line and halter ones.

        A trainer doing well in those circuits right now could evaluate your horse and direct you to who would be able to train/help train and campaign him for you.

        Comment


        • #5
          If you keep him at home and hire a trainer you will learn alot about handling young stock. Some horse owners want to learn and some don't. Or can't.

          As far as breeding wait until he is grown up to see what you have.

          ​​​​​​​I realise he is double creme dilute and will throw palominos and buckskins. But color is not a reason to breed.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
            If you keep him at home and hire a trainer you will learn alot about handling young stock. Some horse owners want to learn and some don't. Or can't.

            As far as breeding wait until he is grown up to see what you have.

            I realize he is double creme dilute and will throw palominos and buckskins. But color is not a reason to breed.
            Color is not the only reason im interested breeding. It's only a bonus and honestly his color had no effect on my purchase. I chose to buy him because of his amazing disposition. Fast learner, very calm for his age, and it's hard to lose his attention. I may not breed him despite wanting to, but im leaving that possibility open for now. Right now my eyes are on making sure he gets the best opportunities I can give him. It's looking like hiring a breeder to work with me is in my best interest.

            Comment


            • #7
              I personally would send a young horse out for at least 90 days to a good colt starter. You say you don’t want to limit your horse because of your own ability but By just having someone out to work with you and your horse, that’s kind of the same thing.
              Starting young horses under saddle and getting them supple and using themselves takes experience and incredible timing....timing isn’t taught by someone else...you normally learn after you break a dozen horses out and start to feel what makes a horse better and where the release is etc.
              Also, by sending your horse to a college to be started, you do realize he will be started by college kids that are LEARNING to start colts? I realize everyone has to learn somehow and we have even sent a few colts to a colt starting program, but they weren’t our prize possession youngsters.
              If I was sending my colts out to someone and not starting them myself, I would find the very best 2 year old trainer I could possibly find within driving distance and keep the colt with them for at least 90 days. The foundation put on your horse in the first few months sets the tone for the rest of his life.

              Comment


              • #8
                Confused, hire a breeder? Or a trainer? In your pretty rural area, thinking the idea of Findlay is a good idea for training, probably less as supervised students do work with the horses and basics are basics no matter how pretty and pricey the wrapping.. Most of the better, independent trainers are based closer to the larger cites a couple of hours in just about any direction from you, It’s not that far but too far to check or visit for lessons to learn to use what they are teaching the horse often enough to learn much and might be out of your budget range.

                I fear you are not in the kind of area that supports good free lancers/ traveling trainers within any distance worth it to them to come to you for basics.

                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would not want students to work with my horses. No thanks. Too easy for them to make mistakes. I would look for a trainer through word of mouth and preferably through someone I know and trust. Even then i would want the trainer to do several sessions either at my place, or if the horse is sent away, I would like to supervise. I'm not the trusting sort.

                  There are some naturally gifted trainers (even teenagers). There are some terrible trainers. I would take a gifted teenager over a terrible adult.

                  My local university is very outdated and I was not at all impressed with their training techniques. Very old school, rough handling. There are better ways of training a horse. You only want one trainer to work with the horse - that way you know what their style is. Students are too inconsistent. You could find an excellent student, or get the worst in the class.

                  Every horse that came out of the university had terrible manners for the farrier. They were too rough. The weanling i had for training was excellent about her feet. The farrier put her in the barn by herself out of sight of all other horses and proceeded to pick a fight with her. I'm pretty sure she will be a women's horse when they are done ruining her. She would have done anything for me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Findlay is a great program! Every day is like a horse show it's so busy there. Plus the students are supervised. I've sent numerous horses to the program and have always been satisfied with the training. Quality horses will be given to the best students.... The nice thing is if you have something specific, loading, clipping, etc the students will work to help you

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by farmergirl View Post
                      Findlay is a great program! Every day is like a horse show it's so busy there. Plus the students are supervised. I've sent numerous horses to the program and have always been satisfied with the training. Quality horses will be given to the best students.... The nice thing is if you have something specific, loading, clipping, etc the students will work to help you
                      Yes, I love their program. I know everyone above is concerned about the students, but its super supervised and around here Findlay is given a lot of props for how good this program is, which is why I had it considered over an experienced trainer. You can also request the type of student (new to horses, versus has been working with them for a good time already)

                      I however do see where the anxiety comes in and it's totally fair! I hadn't thought about the student, i was thinking about the mentors being present the whole time. I think I will contact horse owners who have used the program before and ask their opinion.

                      The area i am in right now does not offer many independent trainers, where I was located in Ohio I had the *BEST* who worked at our barn ( I might be biased but I think they're awesome). Super amazing trainer, however I will be permanently moving to North Carolina in 6 months and that will be where I'll need to locate an independent trainer to assist me.

                      I am getting a lot of mixed answers here on what I should do and I have to disagree that hiring a trainer to assist me would be still limiting him because of the *me* factor. I need to grow just as much as the horse does because I will, in the end, be the one handling him most of the time. I am in no way new to horses, I have trained before just never learned formally and since this is my first time taking on a horse away from my usual resources (family and barn trainer) I need to establish a new zone of support in raising him. This is why I was thinking about both options. Im thinking this may be a case by case answer anyways, but I'd still love to hear thoughts, suggestions, and experiences. You never stop learning when it comes to animals!

                      I do think I might be worrying too much, and no real problems have been popping up that urgently demand a trainer. I suppose I'm just used to a fresh pair of eyes and a resource always being there in case I need it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wait until you move unless you just want Findlay to put some pre school time into him in preparation to ship him. It’s at least a 12 hour drive, each way, to check on if he’s in training in rural central Ohio and you are somewhere in NC.

                        Findlay runs a good program. Not a fan of everything they do but seen many horses that went thru them fir basic training and they are not handled by beginners, only advanced students and most those had considerable experience before enrolling. Also know former program director and department heads. They do better job in that area then anybody else and there aren’t that many other options within about 100 miles.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What are your goals with the horse? Get broke to enjoy at home, campaign as a show horse or another performance event, if so at what level?
                          The best little horse show series around! www.WinningWeekends.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FaithView View Post
                            I am getting a lot of mixed answers here on what I should do and I have to disagree that hiring a trainer to assist me would be still limiting him because of the *me* factor. I need to grow just as much as the horse does because I will, in the end, be the one handling him most of the time. I am in no way new to horses, I have trained before just never learned formally and since this is my first time taking on a horse away from my usual resources (family and barn trainer) I need to establish a new zone of support in raising him. This is why I was thinking about both options. Im thinking this may be a case by case answer anyways, but I'd still love to hear thoughts, suggestions, and experiences. You never stop learning when it comes to animals!
                            I think it just depends on your priorities. If your priority is that you participate regularly in his early education, then you look for someone who can come to you, or you find a nearby barn/trainer that best fits that model. If your priority is for him to gain an elite training and campaign record with a high-quality trainer/breeder, then you send him for 90 days or a season to the very best trainer/breeder that you can find and you let them work their magic. Or something in the middle. All are valid.

                            Of course, there are no guarantees, either situation could work out better or worse than you anticipate. Your colt could be more or less suited to his intended career, much less suited as breeding stock. All you can do is your best to meet your priorities for yourself and your colt.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              I went ahead and did some research on trainers where I am in North Carolina. Im actually finding quite a few that work specifically on reining (which is hopefully my end goal). When I move out there I'll meet a few of them and figure out what a good plan of action will be. Im sure they'll be able to help me assess what he will be suited for and help me get him there

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by FaithView View Post
                                I went ahead and did some research on trainers where I am in North Carolina. Im actually finding quite a few that work specifically on reining (which is hopefully my end goal). When I move out there I'll meet a few of them and figure out what a good plan of action will be. Im sure they'll be able to help me assess what he will be suited for and help me get him there

                                there are some good reining trainers in North Carolina but also a lot of dreadful ones. Gil Susman is wonderful, very kind to his horses and a great two year old guy. Your horse would get a very well rounded education with him.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by TheHunterKid90 View Post


                                  there are some good reining trainers in North Carolina but also a lot of dreadful ones. Gil Susman is wonderful, very kind to his horses and a great two year old guy. Your horse would get a very well rounded education with him.
                                  thankyou, ill be sure to look into him! Im also looking at someone named Jesse Chase. I haven't quite had the time to try and dig up possible dirt on anyone, but I will be sure to do my studying before the time to actually hire somebody comes.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by FaithView View Post

                                    thankyou, ill be sure to look into him! Im also looking at someone named Jesse Chase. I haven't quite had the time to try and dig up possible dirt on anyone, but I will be sure to do my studying before the time to actually hire somebody comes.
                                    Message me if you would like more information on anyone.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      If you want to be a serious stallion owner in a serious discipline (reining), you need to send him to a serious trainer.

                                      If you want to breed to anything with a checkbook because he's a double dilute, go with your plan of "we'll learn together" or sending him to random students.

                                      Sorry to be blunt but it's expensive to be a good stallion owner producing quality foals. It's rarely a profitable business plan; most people do it because they love the breed. If the goal is truly breeding to improve the breed standard, then do it right or don't do it at all.

                                      I've been a stallion owner and got out of that business, because I didn't have the time to dedicate to doing it correctly. I didn't want to keep spending the tens of thousands of dollars each year nominating my stallion to the appropriate futurities, the board/vet bills to collect each time a mare owner needed a shipment, and the cost of keeping my own mares in foal to him.

                                      I'm also a paint breeder and I see too many people producing average, local-4H quality foals and making awful breeding choices because *CoLoR*. It's led to the market we currently have, where there is no middle ground - it's all three or five figure horses.

                                      You sound young, so apologies if you take this personal, but you truly need to think out this business plan and why anyone would breed to him in the future instead of their other options.

                                      If I was spending $2,000 on a stud fee, for example, I would want the stallion who had the best record ($$$ to train and show your guy for several years), or I would want the stallion with a really quality progency record ($$$ to have mares and raise foals to riding age), or I might take a chance on a horse whose full siblings had big show records (your guy has none).

                                      You're going to have to invest the money somewhere unless your business plan is to offer an incredibly cheap stud fee ($500), which is going to attract a lot of people who are interested for color and don't have quality mares (which will hurt you because then your guy's foals will be out of poor quality dam lines). You'll still have trouble pulling a profit, because full care board at a facility that can collect and ship for mare owners is going to cost at least $500 per month, and you'll still have to pay for his incidentals. If your plan is to "live cover" to cut costs, get ready for even more crappy foals, because most mare owners with quality mares (like the kind you WANT to breed to) will not allow for live cover due to the risks involved.

                                      The quickest way to make $1,000,000 in horses is to start with $2,000,000. My vote is to send him to a serious trainer regardless of whether you rethink the stallion project or not; best case, your dreams come true and you did it the right way, worst case, you geld him and have a really great minded colt with a phenomenal foundation that you can build upon.


                                      Veni vidi vici. With a paint pony, nonetheless.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Arelle View Post
                                        If you want to be a serious stallion owner in a serious discipline (reining), you need to send him to a serious trainer.

                                        If you want to breed to anything with a checkbook because he's a double dilute, go with your plan of "we'll learn together" or sending him to random students.

                                        Sorry to be blunt but it's expensive to be a good stallion owner producing quality foals. It's rarely a profitable business plan; most people do it because they love the breed. If the goal is truly breeding to improve the breed standard, then do it right or don't do it at all.

                                        I've been a stallion owner and got out of that business, because I didn't have the time to dedicate to doing it correctly. I didn't want to keep spending the tens of thousands of dollars each year nominating my stallion to the appropriate futurities, the board/vet bills to collect each time a mare owner needed a shipment, and the cost of keeping my own mares in foal to him.

                                        I'm also a paint breeder and I see too many people producing average, local-4H quality foals and making awful breeding choices because *CoLoR*. It's led to the market we currently have, where there is no middle ground - it's all three or five figure horses.

                                        You sound young, so apologies if you take this personal, but you truly need to think out this business plan and why anyone would breed to him in the future instead of their other options.

                                        If I was spending $2,000 on a stud fee, for example, I would want the stallion who had the best record ($$$ to train and show your guy for several years), or I would want the stallion with a really quality progency record ($$$ to have mares and raise foals to riding age), or I might take a chance on a horse whose full siblings had big show records (your guy has none).

                                        You're going to have to invest the money somewhere unless your business plan is to offer an incredibly cheap stud fee ($500), which is going to attract a lot of people who are interested for color and don't have quality mares (which will hurt you because then your guy's foals will be out of poor quality dam lines). You'll still have trouble pulling a profit, because full care board at a facility that can collect and ship for mare owners is going to cost at least $500 per month, and you'll still have to pay for his incidentals. If your plan is to "live cover" to cut costs, get ready for even more crappy foals, because most mare owners with quality mares (like the kind you WANT to breed to) will not allow for live cover due to the risks involved.

                                        The quickest way to make $1,000,000 in horses is to start with $2,000,000. My vote is to send him to a serious trainer regardless of whether you rethink the stallion project or not; best case, your dreams come true and you did it the right way, worst case, you geld him and have a really great minded colt with a phenomenal foundation that you can build upon.

                                        Hi, I am young, and thats why I asked this question because I do want to do it *right*. If you read above, i've already stated that I do not want to breed him for color and it only turned out to be a bonus. I loved this horses temperament so much, I bought early. I've already been in contact with a professional who will be helping me decide whats best for him and will help me determine if he's breeding stock or if gelding is the way to go.

                                        I have no issue gelding him if he will not make good breeding stock, admittedly I really hope thats not the case, but I understand the horse world and I know how many people breed because they *want* to or because they want to know what their horse "babies will look like". I understand the tension that real professional breeders feel whenever they see someone breeding who has no idea what they're doing and I grew up seeing what that could do to the foal itself, owning a companion horse who could never be ridden because its front legs would permanently be lame due to poor breeding.

                                        I want to get into breeding, and everybody starts somewhere. I am starting here, my next step is reaching a professional(which I already have), and if it doesn't work out with this horse. Then so be it, I geld him, he trains to be in reining, and I get deeper into the horse world before buying a quality mare or stud with the resources of those trainers and other horse people I meet along the way. The biggest reason I bought this horse was because I wanted to be in the horse world again. I left home, my quarter horse of 36 years old died earlier this year, and I had the funds to start fresh.

                                        Because I left home it is the first time I won't have my own facility, but I'm not letting that keep me long. I am lucky enough to have gotten a quality career very young that will help me fund this endeavor and I am more than willing to put in the money and the work to get it done because you hit a key point, I do love it. I want to learn more, and as i mentioned above, when I thought about the university it hadn't struck my mind that they were "students" until someone said it here and I almost immediately changed my mind and started looking into other routes.

                                        I've never had to send a horse away for training, I've always had professionals on hand so this is the first time I've had to think "Hmmm, what route should I take with his training now that I'm not home" and I wanted the experiences of other to guide me.

                                        I thank you for your input, and I typed up this mass because I wanted to make sure that you understood that I am taking this seriously and I am looking for red flags. I would hate for anyone here to see me as another one of *those* breeders, because in fact. It will be years before I breed him and thats *if* both I, a vet, and whichever professional I'm working with thinks he is good stock to do so.

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