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Reining v. Cutting v. Ranch stallions conformation

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  • Reining v. Cutting v. Ranch stallions conformation

    I’m in VA and we don’t have too much going on at high levels wrt these western disciplines. It seems to me that the reiners seem to be a bit longer and bigger bodied, with the cutting horses being a bit leaner looking. And with ranch and reined cow horse exploding in popularity, I’m interested in what types of stallions are going to influence those disciplines. WR This Cats Smart caught my eye.
    Last edited by Palm Beach; Oct. 20, 2019, 03:00 PM.
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

  • #2
    What do you want to do, breed and if so, to what?
    It will depend what the mare is, what she has done, what she would be best bred to.

    Maybe buy a prospect to have a trainer bring up and show and sell?
    For that, let the trainer pick what they have best luck with, what fits that trainer.

    Or show in open and then you show also?
    That also takes a different kind of horse, one that is somewhat competitive in open and still can be shown by other than professionals.

    In a few words, way too many variables to say what will fit where.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I’m interested in what types of stallions are going to influence the ranch and reined cow horse disciplines wrt conformation.
      "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

      Comment


      • #4
        You do get Quarter Horse News?

        There is so, so much there about cutting, reining and working cow horse, show and sale results, stallion issue, regular statistics on all the competing horses, their stallions and dams, what is crossing well for what:

        https://www.quarterhorsenews.com

        Their in depth articles are just where you can learn what trainers and competitors are saying about their horses, about the different lines, etc.

        All kinds of information in there.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          I have no problem reading, was looking for opinions from people here, hence my post.
          "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
            I have no problem reading, was looking for opinions from people here, hence my post.
            Well, first, be sure any stallion you choose and of course your mares are 5 panel N/N and as many other we can test for as come down the pipeline.
            That is mattering more and more, as it should with ethical breeders.
            There is enough clean breeding stock out there today to be choosy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Nu Chex To Cash and his son Busy Winin Chex had 3 Congress Champions/Reserve Champions in the Ranch Riding classes at Congress. NCTC lines tend to have more build and body to them than some of the current reining lines. Of course, NCTC is also the sire of 11 Million Dollar NRHA Sire Wimpys Little Step. Ranch riding horses that tend to do well are ones that are "too big" for reining etc.

              Horses influencing the reined cow horse tend to be a bit different. High Brow Cat, Smart Chic Olena, Peptoboonsmal, and Shining Spark are dominant in RCH pedigrees. HBC on both sides, SCO on both sides, Pepto on the top side, and SS on the bottom side. One Time Pepto (by Peptoboonsmal) has been siring winners for generations and his son Hickory Holly Time just sired the NRCHA SBF Reserve Champion Nineteen Ten (who is out of a Shining Spark bred mare). WR This Cat Smart consistently sires winners, as does Bet Hesa Cat. Once In A Blue Boon sired the winner of the SBF (https://vimeo.com/367533316) and there have been some reiners trying them out also.

              Gunnatrashya had 2 make the SBF finals, has had winners in the cutting, and of course is almost a $3 million NRHA Sire. I think he will be making waves for years to come.

              Sorry if that was a bit rambling. There are just so many nice sires, its had to say just what one will have the most influence.
              Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.

              Comment


              • #8
                Look at what the dams have done also, here Miss Tinseltown right, with Hollywoodtinseltown, left, Gunners Tinseltown, middle, two of her offspring that have sired plenty of cow and amateur friendly offspring:

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post
                  Nu Chex To Cash and his son Busy Winin Chex had 3 Congress Champions/Reserve Champions in the Ranch Riding classes at Congress. NCTC lines tend to have more build and body to them than some of the current reining lines. Of course, NCTC is also the sire of 11 Million Dollar NRHA Sire Wimpys Little Step. Ranch riding horses that tend to do well are ones that are "too big" for reining etc.

                  Horses influencing the reined cow horse tend to be a bit different. High Brow Cat, Smart Chic Olena, Peptoboonsmal, and Shining Spark are dominant in RCH pedigrees. HBC on both sides, SCO on both sides, Pepto on the top side, and SS on the bottom side. One Time Pepto (by Peptoboonsmal) has been siring winners for generations and his son Hickory Holly Time just sired the NRCHA SBF Reserve Champion Nineteen Ten (who is out of a Shining Spark bred mare). WR This Cat Smart consistently sires winners, as does Bet Hesa Cat. Once In A Blue Boon sired the winner of the SBF (https://vimeo.com/367533316) and there have been some reiners trying them out also.

                  Gunnatrashya had 2 make the SBF finals, has had winners in the cutting, and of course is almost a $3 million NRHA Sire. I think he will be making waves for years to come.

                  Sorry if that was a bit rambling. There are just so many nice sires, its had to say just what one will have the most influence.
                  Bet Heza Cat really caught my eye too. In reining stallions v. Cutting stallions it seems like the HBCs are most popular for ranch or reined cow horse.
                  Last edited by Palm Beach; Oct. 22, 2019, 08:59 AM.
                  "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you’re looking for something that could rein or cut...I have very much enjoyed my bosses peptoboonsmal x smart little Lena stud and his babies...although I would say the stud is more Smart Little Lena than he is a typical Pepto.
                    Doc Olenas rein or cut and they are the foundation to our breeding program.
                    I don’t think you could go wrong with Chic or Shining Spark x Doc olena crosses either

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by TheHunterKid90 View Post
                      If you’re looking for something that could rein or cut...I have very much enjoyed my bosses peptoboonsmal x smart little Lena stud and his babies...although I would say the stud is more Smart Little Lena than he is a typical Pepto.
                      Doc Olenas rein or cut and they are the foundation to our breeding program.
                      I don’t think you could go wrong with Chic or Shining Spark x Doc olena crosses either
                      I’ve got into ranch an have a long eye to the future wrt replacing my current horse. He is wonderful but pleasure bred and has some arthritis and as it gets more competitive he will struggle to place. He is 13, so I’m looking to try to get into a youngster in the next couple years to bring along. Just trying to educate myself so I can keep an eye on the market wrt what stallions are doing well, and what conformation seems to succeed. Thanks for your thoughts.
                      "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Are there any particular cutting lines that are too tight for the schooling that reining requires?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is not just the stallion you need to be looking at in my opinion. It is a factor in many things like the cross on the mare, what they produce on what generation which gets affected by certain traits.

                          QHN like Bluey mentioned is a great resource on numbers as monies earned but think about the number of get to achieve those numbers...that is just scratching the surface.
                          Bloodline research can be intensive when you figure in all the factors and numbers. Cowhorse people love calculating the numbers!
                          ​​

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                            I’ve got into ranch an have a long eye to the future wrt replacing my current horse. He is wonderful but pleasure bred and has some arthritis and as it gets more competitive he will struggle to place. He is 13, so I’m looking to try to get into a youngster in the next couple years to bring along. Just trying to educate myself so I can keep an eye on the market wrt what stallions are doing well, and what conformation seems to succeed. Thanks for your thoughts.
                            Anyone that wants to participate in a discipline that requires technical skills and horses that are suitable for that discipline and individual rider really should start taking lessons with a professional that has good results with those kinds of students in that discipline.
                            That trainer will guide the student to the right horse for the stage of riding and personality of that rider.

                            A really hot top type horse generally needs to be in the hands of a professional.
                            An amateur just don't need that kind of horse, but the kind of forgiving type, even if less talented horse that fits that rider to be learning, improving and stay safe, especially in the more demanding disciplines.
                            A trainer knows what horses are out there from someone ready to move up to more horse that will fit the beginner in that discipline.
                            Those horses are the best to learn with, especially in a discipline that requires three different sets of competition skills as working cow horse does.

                            Pedigree of a horse for a beginner in working cow horse is the last to look for or check if we are just interested in learning about it and eventually competing, when it comes to the horse that person needs.

                            Pedigrees are immensely interesting on their own.
                            Learning what lines produce and have sustaining power as grandsires and how they cross is interesting.
                            Learning about pedigrees brings with it also learning about what makes those horses tick, why some are better than others and so part of learning about that discipline.

                            Then, when it comes to buying a horse for a special use, the individual horse still reigns.
                            No matter how it is bred, it has to fit the purpose first.

                            There are some very rare top horses that can also be ridden by other than top riders safely, but those are proven top horses that are in top hands already and being competed by the DH/DW and kids of top trainers, top clients of those, etc.
                            Those gems of horses are few and extremely expensive and not for sale to the general public.
                            You can see top juniors and amateurs riding them.

                            In reality, the general public really doesn't need that caliber of horse to learn and to win their share and have a great time with their horse.

                            Remember, working cow horse has one more little detail involved, the cow.
                            Those unpredictable critters with a mind of their own can make at times a great horse look fabulous, next one may just run over your best trained super horse.
                            Working cow horse is very humbling, you have to know how to laugh at yourself to really enjoy and stay with it.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              I love bringing along a youngster myself and that is what I will do.
                              "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
                                I love bringing along a youngster myself and that is what I will do.
                                Fine that, but training for a discipline we are not familiar with, does that make sense?

                                There is where not knowing what we don't know comes to mind.

                                Would you decide that eventing looks like fun, find out what breeding does best, get a youngster and train it yourself, if you have never ridden or trained a dressage or jumping horse?
                                Maybe you fox hunted and think how hard could eventing be?

                                At least you will have fun, training is always the fun part.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Bluey View Post

                                  Fine that, but training for a discipline we are not familiar with, does that make sense?

                                  There is where not knowing what we don't know comes to mind.

                                  Would you decide that eventing looks like fun, find out what breeding does best, get a youngster and train it yourself, if you have never ridden or trained a dressage or jumping horse?
                                  Maybe you fox hunted and think how hard could eventing be?

                                  At least you will have fun, training is always the fun part.
                                  I’ve been doing ranch for several years and have been division year end champion every year. Not quite sure how you concluded I’ve never done ranch from my questions about stallions.
                                  "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                    I’ve been doing ranch for several years and have been division year end champion every year. Not quite sure how you concluded I’ve never done ranch from my questions about stallions.
                                    Not ranch, working cow horse.

                                    Doesn't matter, everyone does what they want with their horses, why not?

                                    When we question others in public forums about how to do something we are not familiar with, as is breeding, or a different discipline we are not familiar with, we will get all kinds of answers.

                                    That is what the answers here are, for all that care to read, each one to take from this what fits them.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post

                                      Not ranch, working cow horse.

                                      Doesn't matter, everyone does what they want with their horses, why not?

                                      When we question others in public forums about how to do something we are not familiar with, as is breeding, or a different discipline we are not familiar with, we will get all kinds of answers.

                                      That is what the answers here are, for all that care to read, each one to take from this what fits them.
                                      Sure, although I'm not sure how you arrived at me wanting to do working cow horse from my ranch questions about stallions. There is very little going on in my are wrt rch.
                                      "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                        Sure, although I'm not sure how you arrived at me wanting to do working cow horse from my ranch questions about stallions. There is very little going on in my are wrt rch.
                                        Sorry if I misunderstood the track the conversation was taking and that was not what you were looking for.
                                        Maybe what we have been talking could possibly help someone else.

                                        Comment

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