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Mystery Brindle Gelding, Need Help!

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  • Mystery Brindle Gelding, Need Help!

    I'm unsure if this is the right place for this post, but I'm at a dead end unfortunately. I purchased a gelding at the Carolina Horse Co auction in NC. I had barely seen him, but I paid $700 for him. (I accidentally bid! Haha!) The auctioneer claimed he was a dun 7 year old, used on a ranch and was out of registered QH stock, but they hadn't received his papers so was being sold as grade. Thats All he said. I couldn't see him well at all in the dark barn, but when we got him home in the light the next day, I was VERY pleasantly surprised. He is a bay dun, with two white coronets. He has distinct BRINDLE streaks on his left side, a dorsal stripe, very dark leg stripes, lighter stripes on his chest, very dark splotches over his withers and neck, and a very narrow white strip and a lil pink snip. He is the SWEETEST boy, gentle and adores people. I really lucked out. He IS lame in the front left due to a thick collection of scar tissue, but even that looks like its healing and when we ride, he gets bute and hes nearly 100%. (I'm a hobby farm rider, so long as he's not pained, I don't mind the lameness.)

    But heres why Im here, who has a grade gelding of THIS color?? He does have a brand on his hip, AG. I DID find out who this is, and I will not say his name here for privacy reasons. Lets just call him AG. I did a little facebook stalking (sorry, not sorry.) And found out this man owned my boy in 2015 in PA, and called him both Laid Back Lenny, and Legs. He had photos of him trail riding, roping cattle, and doing quarter races.

    I contacted AG, who was ENTIRELY unwilling to help me. He was vague, hostile, and would not answer questions, and eventually told me to stop talking to him because he didn't care for people who tried to "snoop into a horses past." So I believe AG sold my boys papers with another horse as he IS a horse dealer. He was selling my boy in 2015 for $7500. All I learned from that talk was that AG bought him in Oklahoma.

    So, I instead looked at his coggins. The coggins was paid by Cranbury horse sales in NJ, but was pulled at New Holland. I called Cranbury, and the man on the phone very quickly told me they didnt have any papers and he didnt run through New Holland and hung up with me quickly. Alrighty then. The coggins was pulled 5 days before my boy was at the NC sale, so he had been shipped all over the place before finally selling at NC. he DID have an online bid earlier in the day, for $1800. But that bid was deleted, either by the bidder or seller. He was then run through the auction right near the end and that's when I got him.

    The brindling is a big deal, there are TWO mares that brindling in QHs stems from, but we havent found many babies out of these mares descendents that were born in 2012 with photos on allbreedpedigree. I contacted one of two brindle breeders in the US, and they said he was unfamiliar.

    ALL I am looking for is his registered name, I'm just curious! I DID find an allbreedpedigree for a colt named Legs, born in 2012 out of a mare bred in Ontario, and I tried contacting that breeder, but they haven't emailed back. I'm just kind of at a loss. Today Ill call the NC auction house and see if they can give me any info, but I'm not hopeful.

    I'm posting here in the hope that someone may recognize this boy, or any horse he may be out of. Ive named him Salem, and he was claimed to be 15.3 hands, but he is quite a big boy so he is probably taller. He has treated my 26 year old mare like a treasure, grooming her and just being her shadow. I wouldn't trade him for the world.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    That's not really brindling, that's an expression of dun factor It isn't super common, but it is not that rare, and I have seen in on mustangs (in photos) and on a Lusitano IRL. Since this is a gelding, he doesn't add anything to the breeding stock for this gene.

    It is very very common for a horse's papers to be lost in transit, especially when the horse suffers a career ending injury and ends up at auction for meat prices. Realize that every step of the way of transferring papers takes cash and effort. Many folks who don't show or breed might not think going to bother is worth it.

    1. Many foals that can be regsitered, aren't, for whatever reason. Owner doesn't see the value, owner procrastinates. Also, horse may not be a purebred QH. He could easily be a QH/mustang cross.

    2. Every time a horse is sold, a bill of sale changes hands (or should). If the horse does have papers, they need to be transferred later. For a cost. It is very common that a recreational user will buy a horse, not bother with the papers, sell him on, and not have the papers.

    3. A horse that goes through auction usually loses its papers because of the nature of the sale.

    I have a Paint mare that came out of auction as a 2 year old ("too difficult"; she's a sweetie now).. No papers, no paper trail.

    My friend has a fancy Arab gelding she bought out of a rural backyard. He has a pedigree she has viewed, but his papers stopped being transferred a few owners back, when folks gave up on him for a show horse ("too difficult"; he's a sweetie now). My friend could pay a fair chunk of change to get the papers but that would require paying for and documenting each change of ownership. This would only be useful to her if she wanted to compete in the Arab shows.

    Another friend has a colt she bought as a weanling. The seller misrepresented who the sire was, and it turns out the sire is owned by a problematic former breeder who was kicked out of the breed association for some bad acts, and cannot register foals from her stallions.

    Another trainer friend took on a NQR show jumper warmblood gelding for $1, whose last sale was $60,000 ("too difficult"; he seems to be mellowing now). She knows his pedigree but I doubt she ever got papers on him.

    All of these horses are pretty nice horses. I consider that I am playing at "the low end of nice horses" which means there are tradeoffs, and one of them is that the situations that make the horses affordable and available is that the papers and sometimes the history of the horse is lost (and also that the horses are "too difficult" for others, seemingly not so much for us).

    There does not need to be any wrong doing. It does not mean that the seller used the papers on another horse. It might mean the seller never had the papers, or that the buyer never transferred them. I can see why the one seller that you contacted got prickly, because he is not going to tell you the name of the person who bought the horse, and presumably caused the career ending injury that sent him to the meat auction.


    • #3
      Seems that you lucked out on a very nice horse.
      Maybe think you can enjoy him for what he presents to you, not what he may have been.

      What did your vet say of his injury, what do x-rays show?
      Most don't ride a lame horse except those few times where the vet may indicate an old, settled injury that is best with light exercise before it becomes a permanent problem, like some ringbone or such can be.
      Most still healing injuries definitely are not that.
      They need to fully heal, then rehab and see if the horse stays sound.
      That is why the question what the vet said you had there.

      That bridling on the side is so far apart I am not sure it would be considered true brindling, which is rare.
      I also have never heard of a bay dun? There are several kinds of dun, but bay dun?
      Maybe that is a dun with some shading to it?
      The dun lines/brindling could help to identify the horse and since that seems important to you and you have already found out so much, maybe you will luck out and get a break that helps you there.

      If his disposition is great, as my friend that buys, trains and resells keeps reminding anyone listening, that alone tends to sell a horse and insure they will have a good home, when the owner can like a sweet horse, without reservations.

      Try not to obsess over where he came from.
      Trader horses tend to come with stories, stories that are a bit windy some times, mostly because they rarely know themselves.

      I would just enjoy such good luck finding just the right horse that is a good friend for you and your mare.


      • #4
        See if the breed registry will do DNA testing.

        I contacted the Missouri Foxtrotter Association and they said they would check to see if my mares DNA is on file. She came from Thompson's horselot. I believe it was $100 to test.

        I hate when papers are separated from the horse. It disqualifies them from breed shows or even the points they often give for trail riding. Papers should stay with the horse, at least for identification reasons.


        • Original Poster

          To clarify, I have zero interest in showing this horse. I am a disabled rider and I ride for my mental health as it helps to keep me regular. The photo came out really badly, but he does have very solid brindle marks. i didn't see till now, but in the pic, you cant see it at all because of the quality. The fur texture is different as well over the brindling, but I wont know if it is seasonal brindling or year round till he grows his winter coat. After studying brindle vs. Dun factor, I definitely believe this to be brindling. I definitely see why it doesnt appear so, though!

          I am only looking for info regarding his registry because it's interesting to me. I have always loved looking through a horses pedigree to see what the relatives look like. If I never find his registered name, that will never bother me because I wouldn't trade him for the world. Im simply curious what his parents looked like to make such a colorful boy. I have contacted AQHA, and unfortunately, they wont do DNA.


          • Original Poster

            Oops, and yes, we have had a vet come peek at the foot, and she said it is likely just the scar tissue issue, or it is even possible that whoever shoed him has clipped him close with a nail. My farrier is coming out next friday to remove his shoes, and my boy plays and runs all on his own without any signs of pain. The vet said most likely, since the thick scar tissue is over a joint, he has issues extending it fully.


            • #7
              He looks like a lovely boy!