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What to use? Ex. Tie-down, bonnet, ect...

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  • What to use? Ex. Tie-down, bonnet, ect...


    To begin this off, I am not looking for training suggestions, I am looking for tack suggestions. TIA

    I do gymkhanas(speed events) and have been currently been using a nylon tie-down. This has helped my mares balance but I am looking for something to remind her that she can not throw her nose all over the place. I am looking at rope tie-downs, rope head setters, anything. She is perfect at a slow pace and even at a canter but during a run, she loses her brain. Thanks.

  • #2
    Gimmicks won't help. You need to put the training hours in to teach her to keep her head at all gaits. Lots of transitions at speed. She needs to learn to control her emotions.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by imaginique View Post
      Gimmicks won't help. You need to put the training hours in to teach her to keep her head at all gaits. Lots of transitions at speed. She needs to learn to control her emotions.
      Thank you. I have put in the hours. She is 21, been set in her ways for the past 18 years and the 2 years that I have had her we have worked on transitions and many many hours of training.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you haven't gotten her better about managing her head and neck at speed in two years, then you keep going until you do.

        In these situations, strap goods are a stand-in. Yes, older horses who have been doing things a certain way for a long time often take a lot longer to get convinced to adopt a new way of moving. It is not an impossible task to change them, but it does take time and consistency. Your response to being told to keep working away at her tells me you aren't interested in continuing to put in the real work it might take to get her truly educated, and that you'd prefer to get on doing what you want to do and ignore the fact that your "fix" is not really a fix. If that's the case, no one here is going to stop you, and you can Google head-setting devices to your heart's content.

        If you want to really have a good running horse, you need to continue to put in the work for as long as it takes for her to understand.
        Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not. Remember that what you have now was once among the many things that you only hoped for.

        Comment


        • #5
          It is interesting seeing the same folks and the same questions across multiple boards.

          With that said, hello again! Of course, you may or may not get differing opinions on these different-minded forums that you've chosen to ask your question. And for the sake of having some information should anyone else run across this question (not that you need to hear my advice repeatedly), a piece of tack will not prevent/stop/train a horse not to throw their nose. It takes a long time of consistency and training. A long time. Longer for some riders, than others. You've also stated in other threads that you used to have hard hands, and that's a good thing that you've "turned around" on that. But also realize because you have had that bad habit in the past, it is possible it can resurface from time to time. Or, a more talented rider might get a faster response from a horse because they have better feel and timing. That's not saying you are a bad rider by any means, but that (as with anything) someone else may have been able to get better results in 2 years time.

          If she's not ready to run because you can't stop her from throwing her head, then she's not ready to run. Even if she is 21 years old already. I know you don't work the pattern very often with her and have indeed spent a lot of time trying to re-train her. But it took her 18+ years to develop the bad habits and they very well might not go away in only 2.

          If you are confident in your trainer, then keep plugging away and keep working on her, trying to improve her.

          And as already mentioned (but putting it out there in case anyone else is reading looking for advice), take her back to the lameness vet for a thorough lameness exam. She's 21. She's bound to have some aches and pains that probably can be addressed and/or may contribute to the head tossing.
          It is not enough to know how to ride; one must know how to fall.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Hello beau! I am sorry that I did not mention her age before. I had asked on the other forums because I wanted to get the money knowledge possible. Thank you all for you help! This is going to be her last season of gaming and then she shall be retired. I will limit what shows she does do and not do every event, it will be more fun based. I have discussed it with my vet and he supports my decision. PS. I did copy this response from the other site.

            Comment


            • #7
              Bonnets and brain chains and a lot of the gimmick garbage people use are only going to work for so long,if they work at all. They are likely to increase a horse's anxiety, cause it to use its body incorrectly, and cause further issues. Some of the tack is pretty horrendous and shouldn't even be allowed, IMO. As someone said, you need to put in the time. I get not wanting to do it on a horse that's 21, but then maybe this isn't the right job for the horse. You already know of your tack options, but they're going to be a bandaid, not a fix.

              Comment


              • #8
                OK, flame suit on. It’s a (at least ) 21 year old game veteran so I’m just going to answer the OPs question. Don’t shoot me. If you are going to use a tie down? Select, adjust and use it correctly and make sure your bridle works with it and it stays still on her head during your runs.

                I HATE any thing nylon. It’s too wide to put any meaningful pressure on her nose and it doesnt adjust as well as leather because it doesn’t give and take like leather does. No idea if your bridle is nylon or leather but CHECK THE FIT. She’s shaking her head so something is bothering her, a loose headstall shifts in fast work, might bother the horse. If the fit if the bit in the mouth allows too much movement, it can get one head shaking.

                Are you using a split ear bridle, browband only or one with browband and noseband ? Again, the bridle needs to fit and not move around or you get headshaking.

                How are you attaching that nylon tie down, to the bridle noseband or a seperate one with its own single strap headstall.??? And are those nylon or leather? If you just attach it to the bridle noseband, everytime she hits it, it’s going to shift the bit in her mouth and she’s not going to react well to that, head shaking is likely..

                So....start with your bridle. Triple check the fit, make sure the bit isn’t too wide. Consider upgrading to leather and maybe getting a different bit that is measured to fit the width of her mouth. That’s going to greatly reduce get rid of the head shaking as no gimmick can do if it’s in reaction to the bridle and bit shifting around during the runs.

                Now, the tie down, if you must. Get a leather one that is adjustable so you can be sure it’s not going to bounce and move the bridle and bit around feeding the headshaking, get a separate noseband and strap/headstall over the top of the head. I like the little fake bosal the size of a pencil, often called a pencil bosal, kind with a ring on the bottom to attach the tie down strap. I wrap the noseband vet wrap or put a fleece on it to protect the nose but horse can still feel if better then flat nylon or leather. Because it’s on it’s own headstall, separate from the rest of the bridle, it doesnt cause the bridle or bit to move around upsetting the horse. And don’t adjust it too tight or she’ll brace on it instead of use her body to wrap around the turns.

                Please don’t use brain chains or stuff over the top of her head, she’ll still shake her head if the bit and bridle are flopping around or constantly shifting and if she ends up fighting the poll pressure, as many will, screw up your turn, your sprints and cost you time.

                If you must use something, stick with the correctly fitted and adjusted tie down on properly adjusted bridle that only effects her if she comes up into it and otherwise is out of the way. But it still won’t stop headshaking if whatever is causing the headshaking is still bothering her. So you got two things to fix.


                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by findeight View Post
                  OK, flame suit on. It’s a (at least ) 21 year old game veteran so I’m just going to answer the OPs question. Don’t shoot me. If you are going to use a tie down? Select, adjust and use it correctly and make sure your bridle works with it and it stays still on her head during your runs.

                  I HATE any thing nylon. It’s too wide to put any meaningful pressure on her nose and it doesnt adjust as well as leather because it doesn’t give and take like leather does. No idea if your bridle is nylon or leather but CHECK THE FIT. She’s shaking her head so something is bothering her, a loose headstall shifts in fast work, might bother the horse. If the fit if the bit in the mouth allows too much movement, it can get one head shaking.

                  Are you using a split ear bridle, browband only or one with browband and noseband ? Again, the bridle needs to fit and not move around or you get headshaking.

                  How are you attaching that nylon tie down, to the bridle noseband or a seperate one with its own single strap headstall.??? And are those nylon or leather? If you just attach it to the bridle noseband, everytime she hits it, it’s going to shift the bit in her mouth and she’s not going to react well to that, head shaking is likely..

                  So....start with your bridle. Triple check the fit, make sure the bit isn’t too wide. Consider upgrading to leather and maybe getting a different bit that is measured to fit the width of her mouth. That’s going to greatly reduce get rid of the head shaking as no gimmick can do if it’s in reaction to the bridle and bit shifting around during the runs.

                  Now, the tie down, if you must. Get a leather one that is adjustable so you can be sure it’s not going to bounce and move the bridle and bit around feeding the headshaking, get a separate noseband and strap/headstall over the top of the head. I like the little fake bosal the size of a pencil, often called a pencil bosal, kind with a ring on the bottom to attach the tie down strap. I wrap the noseband vet wrap or put a fleece on it to protect the nose but horse can still feel if better then flat nylon or leather. Because it’s on it’s own headstall, separate from the rest of the bridle, it doesnt cause the bridle or bit to move around upsetting the horse. And don’t adjust it too tight or she’ll brace on it instead of use her body to wrap around the turns.

                  Please don’t use brain chains or stuff over the top of her head, she’ll still shake her head if the bit and bridle are flopping around or constantly shifting and if she ends up fighting the poll pressure, as many will, screw up your turn, your sprints and cost you time.

                  If you must use something, stick with the correctly fitted and adjusted tie down on properly adjusted bridle that only effects her if she comes up into it and otherwise is out of the way. But it still won’t stop headshaking if whatever is causing the headshaking is still bothering her. So you got two things to fix.

                  Are you using a split ear bridle, browband only or one with browband and noseband?
                  -
                  I am using a leather browband headstall.

                  How are you attaching that nylon tie down, to the bridle noseband or a separate one with its own single strap headstall.??? And are those nylon or leather?
                  -It is on a separate headstall that is nylon and has a nylon tie down strap.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was told as a kid to not use tie-downs, etc. because they encouraged the rider to be too rough with their hands and the bit and that the horse I had at the time (who reared and set back) would injure me and herself going over backwards if I was using a tiedown or other similar gimmick. Instead, I was to teach her to stop. Do you have a ground person to check how you are using your hands when at speed?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by hut-ho78 View Post
                      I was told as a kid to not use tie-downs, etc. because they encouraged the rider to be too rough with their hands and the bit and that the horse I had at the time (who reared and set back) would injure me and herself going over backwards if I was using a tiedown or other similar gimmick. Instead, I was to teach her to stop. Do you have a ground person to check how you are using your hands when at speed?
                      I do have my instructor and she checks my hands during a run and they are almost always low and I rely more on my seat and legs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Get rid of the nylon, it chafes plus it’s too wide for her to feel any nose pressure. Switch to leather, preferably with the padded pencil bosal. Be absolutely sure that bridle is adjusted properly so there’s no excess leather flopping around.

                        Something is creating that head shaking, biggest culprits are loose leather and sometimes noisey snaps and buckles flopping around or something is chafing and I had a horse that the brow band pinched the bottom of his ears. Check that too.

                        What bit do you have on her? If it’s moving aroundkr has loose shanks or parts. it could be triggering the head shaking. It also might be too wide or too narrow.

                        These things usually don’t bother them slow but when they move out, there’s more body and head motion that will make anything in her head move more.

                        Put on your detective hat and THINK about what’s making her shake her head only at the run. Something is going on. Your job to figure it out. That’s the secret if training, try to see and feel it as the horse does.

                        The tie down won’t help the head shaking, they can shake their head fin in one, but if OP wants to continue using it, got no problem with it as long as it’s a proper fit, doesnt rub ( as I think the nylon might be doing) and it’s not just thrown on to crank the head down, which just gets them bracing on it and block proper use of the shoulders in tight turns so backfires as far as BR goes.

                        This is a 21 year old game horse veteran too, who may always have worn one but seems to have only just started head shaking so that’s where OP needs to look and think, something is bothering her that was not before. Be happy to continue to help her learn how to think this out and solve this.

                        Never regularly used a tie down on my Western horses except one, that I didn’t own, who came as a head flipper, needed one to keep his head out of my face, literally, until that got schooled out, the others didn’t need one, but they were cheap projects and a few needed a little, temporary help with bad habits.

                        After I switched to Hunt Seat, I rode about a dozen different Hunters, every single one went over fences in a Standing Martingale. Adjusted properly to only add pressure to the nose if needed. The ones I leased it was at the request of the owner or trainer . The ones I bought came going in them, occasionally they did save me some grief, they, the horses, were cheap and came with some issues, . The last Hunter I owned , who was not cheap or a project, didn’t need one so didn’t wear one after it became acceptable fashion wise to do so

                        I rode my late BILs rope and penning horses in tie downs at his request. The kind I described upthread. Adjusted to only come into play if the horse needed a reminder.

                        Anything is only as good as the hands and brain of the rider, even a plain, fat rubber snaffle...that is often too fat for the horses mouth.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by findeight View Post
                          Get rid of the nylon, it chafes plus it’s too wide for her to feel any nose pressure. Switch to leather, preferably with the padded pencil bosal. Be absolutely sure that bridle is adjusted properly so there’s no excess leather flopping around.

                          Something is creating that head shaking, biggest culprits are loose leather and sometimes noisey snaps and buckles flopping around or something is chafing and I had a horse that the brow band pinched the bottom of his ears. Check that too.

                          What bit do you have on her? If it’s moving aroundkr has loose shanks or parts. it could be triggering the head shaking. It also might be too wide or too narrow.

                          These things usually don’t bother them slow but when they move out, there’s more body and head motion that will make anything in her head move more.

                          Put on your detective hat and THINK about what’s making her shake her head only at the run. Something is going on. Your job to figure it out. That’s the secret if training, try to see and feel it as the horse does.

                          The tie down won’t help the head shaking, they can shake their head fin in one, but if OP wants to continue using it, got no problem with it as long as it’s a proper fit, doesnt rub ( as I think the nylon might be doing) and it’s not just thrown on to crank the head down, which just gets them bracing on it and block proper use of the shoulders in tight turns so backfires as far as BR goes.

                          This is a 21 year old game horse veteran too, who may always have worn one but seems to have only just started head shaking so that’s where OP needs to look and think, something is bothering her that was not before. Be happy to continue to help her learn how to think this out and solve this.

                          Never regularly used a tie down on my Western horses except one, that I didn’t own, who came as a head flipper, needed one to keep his head out of my face, literally, until that got schooled out, the others didn’t need one, but they were cheap projects and a few needed a little, temporary help with bad habits.

                          After I switched to Hunt Seat, I rode about a dozen different Hunters, every single one went over fences in a Standing Martingale. Adjusted properly to only add pressure to the nose if needed. The ones I leased it was at the request of the owner or trainer . The ones I bought came going in them, occasionally they did save me some grief, they, the horses, were cheap and came with some issues, . The last Hunter I owned , who was not cheap or a project, didn’t need one so didn’t wear one after it became acceptable fashion wise to do so

                          I rode my late BILs rope and penning horses in tie downs at his request. The kind I described upthread. Adjusted to only come into play if the horse needed a reminder.

                          Anything is only as good as the hands and brain of the rider, even a plain, fat rubber snaffle...that is often too fat for the horses mouth.
                          Thank you! I am getting a leather tie down. The only time she was in the tie down was during a run. Do you have a link to one of the pencil bosals you were talking about? I am having a hard time finding one. I do think part of the head shaking was my bit. It was a combo on a quick change headstall. There was a lot of rattling in it. I switched to my snaffle that tied on and the head shaking went down significantly.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OTTB_Chick View Post

                            Thank you! I am getting a leather tie down. The only time she was in the tie down was during a run. Do you have a link to one of the pencil bosals you were talking about? I am having a hard time finding one. I do think part of the head shaking was my bit. It was a combo on a quick change headstall. There was a lot of rattling in it. I switched to my snaffle that tied on and the head shaking went down significantly.
                            Good girl, now you are thinking. Those skinny bosals are sold just about everywhere that sells Westrn stuff. I’ll look around for you.

                            ETA Colorado Saddlery, pencil bosal with tie down. 26.95. Tie down just means it has a ring to attach the tie down to. took 5 min to find

                            So search “pencil bosal with tie down” on Google. Don’t get sidetracked with the thicker, fancier stuff, you need thin with the ring braided in just like the picture on the CS site

                            Remember you will probably want to put a little fleece or something on the nose and where it sits on the bridge of her nose.

                            Look forward to seeing updates from you. And check the fit of the browband and crownpiece around the base of her ears.
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by OTTB_Chick View Post

                              Thank you! I am getting a leather tie down. The only time she was in the tie down was during a run. Do you have a link to one of the pencil bosals you were talking about? I am having a hard time finding one. I do think part of the head shaking was my bit. It was a combo on a quick change headstall. There was a lot of rattling in it. I switched to my snaffle that tied on and the head shaking went down significantly.
                              Now that you've switched bits .... have you made a run WITHOUT the tie down? To see how she does?
                              It is not enough to know how to ride; one must know how to fall.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by beau159 View Post

                                Now that you've switched bits .... have you made a run WITHOUT the tie down? To see how she does?
                                I have not as I have not had any shows since then. I am getting rid of the tie down for the pole series this Wednesday and warming up in a German martingale

                                Comment

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