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Paints?!

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  • Paints?!

    I have "acquired" a black and white paint mare that I would assume is around 13 to 14 HH and 4 or 5 years old. She was given to a friend "green broke" and given to me as "I have no clue". She's super cute and built like a tank for a paint. I have never been a paint fan and I have never owned a paint.

    Two of my issues are: She is NOT even green broke and she gets sunburnt on her nose and shoulders.

    I am sending her to a trainer this weekend and he is going to hopefully have her riding trails and knowing the basics after 30 days and I might leave her for 60 if I see that she needs more professional riding.

    I am going to ride her and loan my horse for my hubby to ride. I feel that he wouldn't do too good on her as he really doesn't know much and he is probably too big for her.

    ANYWAY... here are my questions... How in the world do I help keep her from getting sunburnt (human sunscreen?) and what is your thought on paints. She is more white than anything (great...) but she is super sweet, just not broke....yet.

  • #2
    I am a huge Paint fan, have owned them since the 1980's, and currently own two. My first one was about 85% white, so I've had some experience with sunburn. Yes, human sunscreen can work. Also I kept mine in a stable sheet all the time, with a fly mask that went down over his nose. I made my own extension over the nose, since I never saw one like that. Now they're readily available. I tried to turn him out overnight, and kept him in when I could during the day. He was a pain to keep clean, but boy, when he was clean did he ever shine!

    My current two are bay tobianos, and sunburn isn't an issue with them.

    All of mine have had great minds, and so teachable and forgiving. And if you happen to get one with a sense of humor you will have so many funny stories to tell. Have fun with her!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by saddleup View Post
      I am a huge Paint fan, have owned them since the 1980's, and currently own two. My first one was about 85% white, so I've had some experience with sunburn. Yes, human sunscreen can work. Also I kept mine in a stable sheet all the time, with a fly mask that went down over his nose. I made my own extension over the nose, since I never saw one like that. Now they're readily available. I tried to turn him out overnight, and kept him in when I could during the day. He was a pain to keep clean, but boy, when he was clean did he ever shine!

      My current two are bay tobianos, and sunburn isn't an issue with them.

      All of mine have had great minds, and so teachable and forgiving. And if you happen to get one with a sense of humor you will have so many funny stories to tell. Have fun with her!
      I figured that a fly mask would help, I will get one to put on her as soon as I can. It's not too easy to keep her stalled during the day because 1: there is no water at the barn and 2: She isn't at my house so if she were to be in a stall all day and I couldn't make it out there she more than likely would stay up and I don't want that. If she were at my house I would do that. But I can make sure I rub sunscreen on her probably everyday. The sunburn causes her blisters and I don't want to get ready to go ride to find out she has blisters.

      Comment


      • #4
        My 90% white pinto pony never sunburned but she wasn't a Paint, just a feral wildie.

        My current Paint burns her white nostril on pasture every year. I wonder if the % of TB blood plus the pinto genes make Paints more delicate? Because there are pinto mustangs running loose all over the Southwest that never burn.

        I put Zinc creme or Desitin on her nose if it gets too ugly.

        Comment


        • #5
          Long fly mask that covers the nose and a fly sheet with neck cover like this:

          https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/ro...fly-zone-11111

          You can use human sunscreen on your horse, too.

          For sunburned noses I like a zinc oxide-containing product. Diaper rash creme is probably the easiest to find and cheapest to buy, but they sell it specifically for horses, too.
          "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
          that's even remotely true."

          Homer Simpson

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            If the human stuff works just as good as "horse" stuff then I will stick to the cheaper stuff.

            Question: Is it safe for the horse and the other horses to leave a fly sheet and mask on her 24/7? I will make sure I get one that fits perfect.

            Comment


            • #7
              Clover can also increase photosensitivity.

              https://thehorse.com/128970/clover-photosensitivity/
              Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post
                Clover can also increase photosensitivity.

                https://thehorse.com/128970/clover-photosensitivity/
                Thats a cool thing to know! but there isn't much clover in her pasture. I think I am just going to put a sheet and mask on her and keep sunscreen on regularly

                Comment


                • #9
                  This stuff is really good also! https://www.scahealth.com/scah/produ...at-conditioner
                  Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post
                    I like that it is spray on and its fairly cheap. I will see if I can find it here locally to avoid shipping costs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have nine paints, all of which get burned if left out in the Texas sun in the summer.

                      Pro tips - offer them lots of shade, fly masks help prevent burning on the sensitive skin on their face. (I've been using the Pro Choice fly masks this year https://www.nrsworld.com/professiona...SABEgKvXvD_BwE) I know you said you can't, but the best situation is turnout at night, inside during the day.

                      Human sunscreen is totally fine, but don't be completely put off if they hate it. I've never had one burn on their back and/or shoulders - so that's really odd.

                      Surprisingly, my overo fillies with bald faces burn far worse than my tovero, almost all white mare.

                      Edited to Add: Second question... thoughts on paints... I have nine of them. They're my breed of choice - smart, versatile, kind, and flashy.
                      Veni vidi vici. With a paint pony, nonetheless.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Many people use fly sheets and masks 24/7, especially if there are intelligent eyes on the horse in case the gear gets ripped or slips. Just like turnout blankets in winter. Some horses are very careful with their clothes, others not so much but I think fly sheets and masks in general are more likely to be destroyed or lost than to injure the horse.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have always had a soft spot for paints. They are so much fun in my opinion. Especially the mares (extra spunk I guess). My mare has a mostly white face, and she wears a fly mask 24/7 with no issue. She loses it sometimes, but not too often. Bag balm works well to heal blisters and human sunscreen works good on her. I have found that if I buy the coconut scented kind, she's much more likely to allow me to rub it all over her face and I think it's more moisturizing than some of the others.
                          My horse has resting Mare Stare.

                          https://thehorsenosebest.blogspot.com/

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Y'all are awesome! Thanks for the tips! does anyone want to see a picture of her ? IMO shes built nicely. I don't have a super good picture of her but hey, I haven't owned her long plus I was trying to sell her so I didn't want to get too attached just yet. When I failed at selling her I decided to send her to training next week and I am SO GLAD I didn't sell her.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arelle View Post
                              I have nine paints, all of which get burned if left out in the Texas sun in the summer.

                              Pro tips - offer them lots of shade, fly masks help prevent burning on the sensitive skin on their face. (I've been using the Pro Choice fly masks this year https://www.nrsworld.com/professiona...SABEgKvXvD_BwE) I know you said you can't, but the best situation is turnout at night, inside during the day.

                              Human sunscreen is totally fine, but don't be completely put off if they hate it. I've never had one burn on their back and/or shoulders - so that's really odd.

                              Surprisingly, my overo fillies with bald faces burn far worse than my tovero, almost all white mare.

                              Edited to Add: Second question... thoughts on paints... I have nine of them. They're my breed of choice - smart, versatile, kind, and flashy.
                              Oh that is very very interesting about overo versus tovero.

                              My Paint is overo with a bald face. She burns on her nose.

                              My old grade pinto pony was either a very white tobiano or possibly a tovero. Her few spots were strictly tobiano pattern, but she had a nose blaze (not a bald face). She lived on pasture for years but never burned anywhere.

                              I love my overo mare but I recognize the overo gene is a little different what with lethal white. I wouldn't be surprised if it has other oddities.

                              Deafness however is I think connected specifically to the splash pinto gene, as are blue eyes?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                                Oh that is very very interesting about overo versus tovero.

                                My Paint is overo with a bald face. She burns on her nose.

                                My old grade pinto pony was either a very white tobiano or possibly a tovero. Her few spots were strictly tobiano pattern, but she had a nose blaze (not a bald face). She lived on pasture for years but never burned anywhere.

                                I love my overo mare but I recognize the overo gene is a little different what with lethal white. I wouldn't be surprised if it has other oddities.

                                Deafness however is I think connected specifically to the splash pinto gene, as are blue eyes?
                                My tobiano mare finally burned this year on the tip of her blaze - a first in 17 years. It was a hot one in Dallas!

                                Lethal white is actually just one of the overo genes. Splash and sabino and the W modifiers are all considered overo patterns as well. Tobiano works completely differently by flipping the KIT gene, which is an entirely different, interesting rabbit hole to dive into.

                                I've only seen deafness in the splash gene, but I also live in Gunner country so most of the deaf horses I know are descendants of his. There was one western pleasure bred gelding I know who was deaf and out of a frame stallion; not sure how he tested genetically but was phenotypically splash and I assume if he was it came from the dam.

                                Blue eyes, however, are not exclusively connected to the splash gene. I currently have three horses who have at least one blue eye; I haven't tested my gelding, but one is the palomino tovero pictured above (no splash genes) and the other is her filly who is sired by a QH with no white pattern genes.
                                Veni vidi vici. With a paint pony, nonetheless.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Guys I measure Shiloh today.... She is considered a pony haha! right at 54 inches tall . And my other mare is pushing being a pony at 59 inches tall I never knew that a pony could be so... tall. Click image for larger version

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Arelle View Post

                                    My tobiano mare finally burned this year on the tip of her blaze - a first in 17 years. It was a hot one in Dallas!

                                    Lethal white is actually just one of the overo genes. Splash and sabino and the W modifiers are all considered overo patterns as well. Tobiano works completely differently by flipping the KIT gene, which is an entirely different, interesting rabbit hole to dive into.

                                    I've only seen deafness in the splash gene, but I also live in Gunner country so most of the deaf horses I know are descendants of his. There was one western pleasure bred gelding I know who was deaf and out of a frame stallion; not sure how he tested genetically but was phenotypically splash and I assume if he was it came from the dam.

                                    Blue eyes, however, are not exclusively connected to the splash gene. I currently have three horses who have at least one blue eye; I haven't tested my gelding, but one is the palomino tovero pictured above (no splash genes) and the other is her filly who is sired by a QH with no white pattern genes.
                                    Yeah, I was using "overo" as shorthand for frame overo, which is always lethal white if homozygous.

                                    But yes, splash and sabino are also categorized as types of overo. I think it's more a phenotypic naming (from the Spanish speckled like an egg) than a modern genetic category?

                                    I thought blue eyes were from frame overo but got corrected over on another COTH thread recently that apparently they are from splash even if the horse has no other obvious spash markings.

                                    I suppose I should go figure out how tobiano and overo are genetically different, any suggestions for good links or do you want to expand? Realize it might be too complicated or tedious to explain in a post!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                                      Yeah, I was using "overo" as shorthand for frame overo, which is always lethal white if homozygous.

                                      But yes, splash and sabino are also categorized as types of overo. I think it's more a phenotypic naming (from the Spanish speckled like an egg) than a modern genetic category?

                                      I thought blue eyes were from frame overo but got corrected over on another COTH thread recently that apparently they are from splash even if the horse has no other obvious spash markings.

                                      I suppose I should go figure out how tobiano and overo are genetically different, any suggestions for good links or do you want to expand? Realize it might be too complicated or tedious to explain in a post!!!
                                      I have the UC Davis results for 2/3 horses with blue eyes that I own. No splash genes, whoever is spreading that info is wrong.

                                      Here's the actual scientific article from Samantha Brooks at UF: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18253033 but I think it's behind a paywall. Etalon has a small blurb on it: https://www.etalondx.com/tobiano-to

                                      For a free, and more basic explanation, APHA put out this PDF in 2016: http://apha.com/wp-content/uploads/2...lorInside1.pdf It lists which position on the KIT gene different DW patterns appear, as well as which gene each pattern is located Tobiano is the KIT gene on Chromosome 3, Frame Overo is the EDNRB gene on Chromosome 17. Sabino and the dominant whites are found on the KIT gene as well, where as the various splash genes are on Chromosomes 6 and/or 16.

                                      I've actually spoken with Samantha at the APHA conventions. She's currently doing a rabicano study that one of my mares is in - hopefully we'll sequence that gene in the near future! http://www.ufequinegenetics.org/rabicano.html

                                      Edited, because I missed this the first time: As you see, Splash and Sabino are entirely different genes from frame overo. They're phenotypically different as well. But, knowing which one you're dealing with is important since homozygous frame is lethal, whereas homozygous splash 1 is not. The real genetic categories are the big six listed - but some horses carry multiple genes; a friend of mine owns an APHA stallion who is n/O, n/SW1, n/W20. Most modern APHA breeders will go into the weeds as to which white mutation they're dealing with, but APHA as an organization lumps all non-tobiano patterns into the overo bucket.
                                      Veni vidi vici. With a paint pony, nonetheless.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Thank you! The Paint PDF was really informative, way better info than I found the last time I went searching on line.

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