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Mare still not pregnant

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  • #21
    Besides trying what has been suggested, you might also consider non-traditional. I had a mare last year I was trying to re-breed (not a maiden). We could not lock down any reason for no pregnancy with 3 tries. My vet is also versed in accupuncture. This year we did accupuncture and got her in foal first try. I figured it was worth a try and pennies to what I had already spent.
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    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by NBFarm View Post
      Dan,

      I know a saline flush was mentioned, but has your vet ever mentioned a plasma infusion post breeding?

      Karen
      Karen,

      I can talk to my vet about this. Do you mean the non- platelet part of blood? Or the platelet part of the blood (this would be PRP).

      Dan
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      • Original Poster

        #23
        Just found reference to plasma infusion in a Pycock article

        "A reported deficiency of opsonin (Asbury 1984) led to the use of intrauterine plasma as a source of opsonins. Studies following its use have indicated an improvement of fertility (Asbury 1984; Pascoe 1994). Both authors suggested that the plasma had an enhancing efect on phagocytosis by uterine neutrophils. Adams and Ginther (1989), in a study which included control groups of mares, found that intrauterine plasma was not efficacious in treating endometritis since there was no improvement in pregnancy rates. Troedsson et al (1992) suggested that plasma treatment might only benefit certain susceptible mares. This latter point was also alluded to recently by Pascoe (1994) who, whilst remaining enthusiastic about the use of plasma in the management of immune-incompetent mares, conceded that this may only apply to mares without a mechanical clearance problem. Consequently I use plasma only in mares which repeatedly fail to become pregnant, but have no history of fluid accumulation."

        The article doesn't say anything about what type of plasma.

        Dan
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        • #24
          Just as a side note...I have a mare who is having problems this year with uterine fluid. She has had two healthy foals and has a clean culture (x3) and cytology and good biopsy. But, she is fat (even with diet restrictions) and suspect for metabolic issues. Even though she has a dappled and shiny skin coat, she is cresty and has major split ends on her mane. In dogs, it is easy to spot the low thyroid because their coat will be dull and longish bilaterally. I guess it is different in horses. We tested this mare for thyroid and she is below normal threshold in both T3 and T4. We are throwing in the towel for this year and treating her with thyroid supplement as both vet and I feel that her metabolic status is sub par. Just something else to look at. Thyroid supplementation takes months to have metabolic effect. This is why we are no longer attempting to breed this mare this year. Don't know if this might be a factor with your mare, but just adding another perspective to the big picture.
          Last edited by Indy-lou; Jul. 17, 2010, 02:28 AM.
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          • #25
            Originally posted by Indy-lou View Post
            Just as a side note...I have a mare who is having problems this year with uterine fluid. She has had two healthy foals and has a clean culture (x3) and cytology and good biopsy. But, she is fat (even with diet restrictions) and suspect for metabolic issues. Even though she has a dappled and shiny skin coat, she is cresty and has major split ends on her mane. In dogs, it is easy to spot the low thyroid because their coat will be dull and longish bilaterally. I guess it is different in horses. We tested this mare for thyroid and she is below normal threshold in both T3 and T4. We are throwing in the towel for this year and treating her with thyroid supplement as both vet and I feel that her metabolic status is sub par. Just something else to look at. Thyroid supplementation takes months to have metabolic effect. This is why we are no longer attempting to breed this mare this year. Don't know if this might be a factor with your mare, but just adding another perspective to the big picture.
            Indy-Lou,

            I don't think this would be the same in Dan's case, but I have a mare just like yours. And I hate to sound like a broken record here, but I took this mare of anything with soy. She's much healtheir and happy and took on her first attempt in a very cold March in 09. I was shocked as previous breedings were costing so much money and so many attempts. This mare and her daughters seem to have the same metabolic issue. Off the soy they are very simple to keep and I have no issues. FWIW, I am not anti soy but I do know it affects some horses. And if we want to be specific it can be the legume family as we all know some horses have issues with alfafa and a vet I know sees issues in horses that are on feed with peas in the compound.

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            • #26
              Dan the medical definition of plasma is blood with all the cells taken out so the liquid left behind when the red blood cells, white blood cells and platelets have been removed. I'm not aware of anything else that is called plasma. If the proteins are removed/ reduced it is called serum. If it is treated in a different way to concentrate various different clotting factors it is called cryoprecipitate or factor (add a number here) concentrate or it is called the name of the protein that is in high concentration within it such as 20% Albumin.

              So the reason why the vet papers aren't giving a definition of plasma is because plasma only describes one sort of blood product.

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              • Original Poster

                #27
                Originally posted by stolensilver View Post
                Dan the medical definition of plasma is blood with all the cells taken out so the liquid left behind when the red blood cells, white blood cells and platelets have been removed. I'm not aware of anything else that is called plasma. If the proteins are removed/ reduced it is called serum. If it is treated in a different way to concentrate various different clotting factors it is called cryoprecipitate or factor (add a number here) concentrate or it is called the name of the protein that is in high concentration within it such as 20% Albumin.

                So the reason why the vet papers aren't giving a definition of plasma is because plasma only describes one sort of blood product.
                I just wanted to be sure because PRP uses the platelets. They act as extreme growth factors when concentrated. When all the platelets are removed, wouldn't that then act to prevent growth? I was thinking bacteria not the embryo.

                Dan
                Last edited by Dan; Jul. 17, 2010, 07:41 AM. Reason: added was
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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Originally posted by Indy-lou View Post
                  Just as a side note...I have a mare who is having problems this year with uterine fluid. She has had two healthy foals and has a clean culture (x3) and cytology and good biopsy. But, she is fat (even with diet restrictions) and suspect for metabolic issues. Even though she has a dappled and shiny skin coat, she is cresty and has major split ends on her mane. In dogs, it is easy to spot the low thyroid because their coat will be dull and longish bilaterally. I guess it is different in horses. We tested this mare for thyroid and she is below normal threshold in both T3 and T4. We are throwing in the towel for this year and treating her with thyroid supplement as both vet and I feel that her metabolic status is sub par. Just something else to look at. Thyroid supplementation takes months to have metabolic effect. This is why we are no longer attempting to breed this mare this year. Don't know if this might be a factor with your mare, but just adding another perspective to the big picture.
                  I plan on getting the mare tested for thyroid and insulin resistance. I also plan on switching her off the alfalfa hay and onto a timothy hay. The mare does have a little bit of crest to the neck. I read somewhere that the thyroid medicine did not change the percentage of mares getting pregnant (have to consider whether the study was proper).

                  Are there any recomendations on grain to use? I was using Omelene 200 this year. Someone recommended I switch to some of the ADM feeds like SeniorGlo.

                  Dan
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                  • #29
                    Equilibrium: this mare gets only orchard grass and a cup of rice bran to feed thru her vitamin/mineral supplement and the thyroid powder. She hasn't been fed any concentrate since I've owned her!
                    As far as studies showing thyroid not effective for pregnancies, I think you have to look at the horse. If the thyroid is sub par, and not functioning properly, then you have a clinical reason to treat that horse for hypothyroidism. Not saying people should put normal mares on thyroid.
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                    • #30
                      Re: Plasma Infusion -
                      Originally posted by NBFarm View Post
                      I know that this theory is considered a little old fashioned, but I can't ignore the results with my mare. Maybe Kathy can chime in here with some more facts on it....

                      Karen
                      It was en vogue about 15-20 years ago, fell out of "fashion" but has gained in popularity more recently with some success on;e problem mares. The idea behind it is to actually "infuse" the mare with her own "defenses". So, she is essentially assisting herself in dealing with any problems. Oversimplification, but hopefully helps to explain what you're actually doing.

                      Kathy,
                      Do you also do the oxytocin regime at the same time?
                      Yes. We actually use clopsrostenol on some mares for the late night Oxytocin shot if they are pre ovulation in order to get SOME sleep <smile>. But, with really bad mares, we'll sometimes combine everything and throw it all at the mare if she's having real issues clearing fluid.

                      Hope that helps!
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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Dan View Post
                        Karen,

                        I can talk to my vet about this. Do you mean the non- platelet part of blood? Or the platelet part of the blood (this would be PRP).

                        Dan
                        non-platelet. Typically, you would either centrifuge the blood or allow it to sit overnight and draw off the "serum" portion of it. Hope that helps!
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                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Thanks everyone.

                          Lots of great ideas. Some people will say it is just a matter of probabilities. The engineer in me wants the probabilities weighted as much in my favor as possible.

                          Thanks,
                          Dan
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