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Very curious about new TB's Pedigree ...(picture)

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  • Very curious about new TB's Pedigree ...(picture)

    I see these posts all the time, and feel a bit annoying for doing another one (sorry!), but I am *extremely* curious about the breeding on my gelding. I've refrained from posting this for as long as I could.

    He's unlike any Thoroughbred I've met before, build wise. A lot of bone, very warmblood like. Huge stride, gorgeous balanced canter. Currently doing dressage with him. Pictured below prior to going into full work:


    I recognize a few "typical" names in there, but beyond that I know absolutely nothing.

    Thank you in advance!

  • #2
    Wow.... if that's another TB on the other side, he makes the other one look like a youngster.

    Dam's line goes back to a full sister of War Admiral. And the dam line includes Never Bend. At a place I used to board, the BO had a Never Bend bred gelding. Very substantial also so I'm thinking that's where the substance is coming from.

    Top side Mr. Prospector, which I don't equate with substance. Just may be my experience. I had a grand daughter of his that was pretty substantial but again, I think it came from the dam's side.

    If Viney chimes in here, she can tell you more. I really like him.


    • #3
      I don't know anything about the bottom line, but all the others have plenty of substance-- including Mr. Prospector > forty Niner . I worked with a lot of Mr. Prospectors on the track (Fla. and Md.) and saw Mr. Prospector himself at Claiborne. They were ALL very substantial horses.


      • #4
        Lovely and lovely

        It is a lovely horse...knees a little wonky but I am guessing he gets up from laying down by getting up on his knees instead of butt first. Makes their knees kind of thick and blebby looking...not a fault. Lovely guy...English Thoroughbred type from American lines. All good sport candidates in his pedigree. I didn't know about the bottom line but he goes to Brush Up and he also has Wild Risk. The worst he has is Mr Prospector and that is very nice with Raise You and Sequence. This is an old pedigree on the dam side...you get right back to the time when TBs were THE sport horse. Nice find. PatO


        • Original Poster

          Wow, very cool! All is good to know, thank you so much!

          He's a pretty special boy, and I actually came across him somewhat accidentally. He's definitely a keeper (funky knees and all ).


          • #6
            Funky knees might also come through the sire's side. He is tail male to RAN, and tail female to the full sister of RAN's fragile son Exclusive Native.

            Danzig has been churning out very high level eventing descendants by multiple sons and daughters.

            Sire line gives me a bit of the creeps where soundness is concerned. It's fashion breeding at its worst. On the other hand, this is a gelding who won't be breeding and, in that case, you look at the horse in front of you and manage its weaknesses for maximum effect.

            Bottom side is ND, Native Dancer and Mr. P clear. That is a very good thing, since putting a sire with those lines on top of a mare who is free of those lines tends to make a much sounder horse. Never Bend is one of the best sport lines, and you also also have the Nasrullah son Bold Ruler who is equally good, but not as Sturdy. Only downside to some of the Nasrullah lines is a not so long lasting heart--that is to say that Nasrullah and his grandson Mill Reef by Never Bend both dropped dead of heart attacks in the pasture. Or maybe it was Never Bend himself. I can't remember off the top of my head.

            Fool's Play is a granddaughter of Marguerite of Valois, daughter of Teddy and Plucky Liege. So you have both male and female lines to that mating since Albania is a daughter of one of their sons. Backbone is from Worden, son of the very great sport horse sire, Wild Risk, and out of a daughter of the very great sport horse sire, Hyperion. The Worden Wild Risk branch is very well proved in eventing and jumping disciplines generally.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire


            • #7
              Very nice gelding, wish he was mine. There is no problem with the Mr. P or RAN in his pedigree. The reason those lines get a bad rap for soundness is because they run so fast as 2 year olds that they often hurt themselves. The slow horses don't hurt themselves because they never run fast enough to hurt themselves.

              Your gelding won't be racing, so soundness from Mr. P or RAN is absolutely not a factor anyway. He's just as sound as any old fashioned TB pedigree.


              • #8
                Sorry, Blue Domino, but I disagree. Jumping and particularly eventing and even dressage put huge stresses on various leg joints. If the horse is just a pleasure horse, then no questions asked. But if he's being asked to perform at intermediate or higher levels in all of the disciplines, then genetics from those lines can make a difference.

                Since he won't be breeding or racing, everything becomes just management. Personally, having multiple Native Dancer lines in a horse would make me hyper-vigilant.

                He is a lovely boy without question.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire


                • #9
                  Mr. P was crooked and produced it. Crooked legs increase the predisposition for lameness issues. I don't mind Native Dancer several times in a pedigree IF it comes through stallions other than RAN and Mr. P. Love the Jig Times, High Echelon, Dancer's Image, etc. Just much harder to find. JMHO


                  • Original Poster

                    Very cool stuff vineyridge, thank you so much! The bit about Danzig is interesting.. I actually had someone approach me not long ago asking me if I was planning on eventing him eventually. Coincidence?

                    He definitely does not have the prettiest legs on the planet, but they're not excessively wonky. It's nice to know what it comes from, though. He is on a cautionary joint supplement and booted up pretty good when he's worked, along with 24/7 turnout. So far so good!


                    • #11
                      I have had 3 Mr P horses heavy on the Buckfinder/Buckpasser.

                      I've had this horse for 7 years... he's now 13.
                      Here is his pedigree if you're curious.

                      And this horse was a sales horse. A little lighter bone.

                      and this horse is my little colt I bred.

                      I love the line myself. Your boy is nice and big. They are super athletes and I hope you enjoy yours as much as I've enjoyed mine!
                      Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN


                      • #12
                        I think he looks exactly how a TB should.
                        Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!


                        • #13
                          I've just found Lord Putnam in my Dr. Birdsall. He was a very decent sire line in hunter champions in the era that my books cover.
                          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                          Thread killer Extraordinaire


                          • #14
                            Looks the part

                            I am sure that people are coming up to you because he looks the part for horse sport, especially if you are older and saw TBs like this in the "olden" days. I am sure that if "I" saw him at any event "I" would be right there too. Maybe print a flier about him so you don't have to stand around explaining who he is and where he came from and how he is bred. The next question would be is where you got him. I have known trainers to keep a little secret like that if they suspected there would be more coming and they could monopolize the horses produced by a breeder. In Great Britain they would go so far as to import Irish bred horses without papers so a buyer couldn't trace back and cut out the middle man. Hopefully the practice of passports will stop some of this so breeders see more success and know to keep producing horses like this. I for one am not breeding TBs beciase it would be so hard to find stock to breed horses like this in the United States. I would LOVE to find mares like this. Good luck with him. PatO


                            • #15
                              Should mention that he is tail female to Brushup, War Admiral's dam. She has two inches of descendants in my Dr. Birdsall.

                              If there ever was a Blue Hen mare, she's one. Her daughters were excellent producers, as was she.
                              "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                              Thread killer Extraordinaire