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Thread on Bill Moroney's Hunter Breeding Comments?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Leland View Post
    I mean no harm in mentioning my inability to find statistics on prior IHF winners. And if they are out there winning or even not, shame on our statistics (which is what I do - statistics):
    ...., 3 years later, when these girls and boys are 6 and 7, it is hard to get stats on them via the USEF website - that is my problem - I do not know if they are still successful or not. The IHF should track these results! I did find results on Steal the Show! but I had to sort through many with the same name. I have gotten locked up trying to look up others.
    First you said you couldn't find them, now you sound like you didn't do the research because there were too many to sort through. LOL
    I found them, no problem.
    Fan of Sea Accounts

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    • #42
      Originally posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
      No need to be so defensive Omom.
      But when I see somebody react that way when I said nothing about you or your horse, well I just have to wonder....
      Wonder away. I certainly don't feel the slightest bit defensive. Just stating what I'd learned personally.

      Originally posted by Samotis View Post
      There are always going to be people that abuse the schooling, in any classes!
      Ah, how true, Samotis. How true. No matter what is said, where, by whom, there will always be abusers.
      "For God hates utterly
      The bray of bragging tongues."
      Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #43
        Originally posted by SilverBalls View Post
        One other thing... Pwynnnorman... sometimes for the life of me I cannot follow your thought process. I often think you are reading one thread and posting on another.
        I am just offering some constructive criticism... no harm meant.
        Hey, well that makes two of us then!
        Sportponies Unlimited
        Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

        Comment


        • #44
          Leland - From the 2004 IHF finals I do know that Dream On is showing in the adults and is sane and sound! His owner, Justbay posts here occasionally. Also Mandrake and The Chairman (from the 1998 IHF futurities) are showing in the adults and amateurs very successfully. Others have been sold and have had their names changed (I personally know of an Absolut and 2 All the Gold's). Yes, the IHF does need some tweaking, but at least they got the program up and running. Maybe, if more breeders volunteered and offered assistance the IHF would consider more changes. Or, if Bill Moroney is so offended then the USHJA should step in and offer a program.


          And ise@ssl, the good news is that 98% of the hunters aren't going around on their forehands. I have seen enough sales tapes of European 3-4 year olds to know that the Europeans don't have the market cornered on correct riding style. I'm amazed that some of those horses could even get their front ends over the fences. (Sorry - this comment refers to ise@ssl post on the hunter/jumper forum concerning the IHF - I'm getting my forums confused!)
          Last edited by Hattie; Dec. 20, 2007, 06:18 PM. Reason: correction in post

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Hattie View Post
            Yes, the IHF does need some tweaking, but at least they got the program up and running. Maybe, if more breeders volunteered and offered assistance the IHF would consider more changes.
            Hattie, acknowledging there MAY (repeak *MAY*) be a problem certain indicates that you have an open mind!

            I am not trying to put you on the spot, but I am very interested in what contribution you think breeders could make. After all, the most lucrative market in the US is for the amateur hunter rider. It is in our (ok, I'll be very selfish here! **MY**) best interest to cooperate, even encourage, the area where the highest return could be for my investment (think youngsters.)

            Is this clear as mud?????
            "For God hates utterly
            The bray of bragging tongues."
            Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

            Comment


            • #46
              For the record, I was training on the morning that Billy was referring to the schooling. Outide of one poorly trained rider making a spectacle on one poorly trained horse I saw nothing that most people would call abuse. Some of them didn't even school the jumps, most jumped around once and schooled a lead change or two. Perhaps he was taken aback by the one individual, mwhich would be understandable.
              www.midatlanticeq.com
              Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
              November 11-13, 2016

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by chunky munky View Post
                For the record, I was training on the morning that Billy was referring to the schooling.
                Not to be confrontational, but...I went back and re-read his article. It never mentioned a date ... How do you know this was the day he was writing about ... ?? (Heck, for all I know you could be MARRIED to the guy and he TOLD you!!! )
                "For God hates utterly
                The bray of bragging tongues."
                Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                Comment


                • #48
                  OldenburgMom - I don't have an answer. Possibly if a large enough group of breeders got together and offered to the IHF what they wanted in the program AND agreed to support it, then maybe they would consider a change. I personally would like to see the IHF finals go longer than 1 day(to spread out the same number of classes) and have the 2 judges sit apart and award numerical scores.

                  I'm not a breeder, so I'm a bit up in the air on changes for fence heights and ages. I will tell you that after viewing so many offspring of different stallions, I go out of my way to purchase yearlings/weanlings by stallions that seem to throw "the amateur ride" consistantly. These same horses I have resold through the IHF classifieds for a significant profit to fellow amateurs. And yes, some were not ready at 3 to show over fences and I made the decision to wait. However, I don't criticize the program for that. I am just thankful that they have offered a venue for my young horse.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Oldenburg Mom View Post
                    Not to be confrontational, but...I went back and re-read his article. It never mentioned a date ... How do you know this was the day he was writing about ... ?? (Heck, for all I know you could be MARRIED to the guy and he TOLD you!!! )
                    No the article doesn't give a date.
                    Here's what it says:

                    "For many years the International Hunter Futurity has been the hunter breeder’s hallmark event. I happened to be in Lexington, Ky., judging in September at the same competition that hosts the IHF Finals. By chance, I ended up at the show three hours early for my ring to start and watched the schooling and classes for the 3-year-old futurity. "

                    It doesn't say last September or a few years ago. I'd think it's a safe bet that the author ( who was clearly concerned about the issues ) wouldn't have waited a year or two to comment.

                    It says September and it says he was judging at the same show.
                    According to the prize list he was judging at that show in Sept of 2007. According to USEF he didn't judge there in 2006.

                    Once more, it would be useful to read LaurieP's account of the same situation that was mentioned in the article. That's if you want to be open minded.

                    It just seems really odd that many on this board say that nobody does anything for the breeders. Yet many of you complain about the IHF,IJF or the Future Event horse series. They are handing you opportunites to market your horses in an environment that creates a lot of PR. These are similar to the Young Horse events in Europe. Do any of the complainers actually contact the folks that run these events with constructive criticism? Probably not.
                    Fan of Sea Accounts

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      The 3 year olds only show on one morning, Thursday. The Challenge series and 4 year olds go on Wednesday. Billy judged this year and is speaking of the morning I addressed in my post on H/J.
                      Laurie

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Hattie View Post
                        OldenburgMom - I don't have an answer. Possibly if a large enough group of breeders got together and offered to the IHF what they wanted in the program
                        Hattie,

                        What a fine informational post. It's so refreshing to read someone's post that admits he/she doesn't have all the answers! I don't have all the answers either ... but I think if you don't ask questions, you'll never find ANY answers!

                        What I find most encouraging about your post is this comment:
                        These same horses I have resold through the IHF classifieds for a significant profit to fellow amateurs. And yes, some were not ready at 3 to show over fences and I made the decision to wait.
                        This says to me that you have developped (regardless of how small or large) a consistent method to go from point A (weaner, yearling) to point B (sale!) that includes C (*profit*) As everyone on these boards know, that is QUITE an accomplishment!

                        So, well done! Now, when can you come out to my farm to look at my special baby due in June (just kidding!)

                        Oh, plus I just noticed something: the judges sit together and jointly make class placings?
                        "For God hates utterly
                        The bray of bragging tongues."
                        Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Yup, that is how they do it.
                          Laurie

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                          • #53
                            3 year old winners in the finals:
                            Geldings:
                            Steal the Show - showing in adults (somewhat amusing, showed in the pregreens in 2005, in 2006, did the first years twice in 2007, and then went back into the pregreens for the rest of 2007. I wonder how USEF didn't catch the 2005 show when they reinstated the green status in 2007?)
                            Paradiso -showed in pregreens until last winter, not sure where it is now
                            Le Balnc Reynard- we had this one in the barn last year, it did the TB hunters at WEF, and was sold to a kid in PA. Did the local hunters at PNHS this year.
                            Dream On- shows in the adults in va

                            Fillies:
                            Money Talks- ?? changed name?? USEF only has geldings.
                            Gold Digger- did 2 shows of pregreens this year with Jeff Gogul

                            In the 4 year old sweepstakes:
                            Sands of Time- did pregreens/adults in 2005, nothing listed since
                            Winter Gold- pregreens/adults in 2005, nothing listed since
                            Barkentine- did two shows of childrens/misc this year
                            Gold's Gone Fishing- ?? changed name??

                            Maybe Pinetreefarm will fill in the ones I wasn't able to.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Credit for the 3 year old hunter hack idea belongs to Tish Quirk. I love to pick her brain about this stuff. She is a wealth of knowledge. I think it's the perfect solution. Let the 4-5 year olds jump the courses.

                              Chanda, thanks for providing the information on the horses Pine Tree was so concened about, and had so much difficulty locating. I expect it will get easier to track the horses as the IHF program matures. So many people change a horse's name when they buy it. I do EVERY single time.
                              ~ Bill Rube ~
                              http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                              Check us out on Facebook

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Hattie View Post
                                Leland - From the 2004 IHF finals I do know that Dream On is showing in the adults and is sane and sound! His owner, Justbay posts here occasionally. Also Mandrake and The Chairman (from the 1998 IHF futurities) are showing in the adults and amateurs very successfully. Others have been sold and have had their names changed (I personally know of an Absolut and 2 All the Gold's). Yes, the IHF does need some tweaking, but at least they got the program up and running. Maybe, if more breeders volunteered and offered assistance the IHF would consider more changes. Or, if Bill Moroney is so offended then the USHJA should step in and offer a program.

                                And ise@ssl, the good news is that 98% of the hunters aren't going around on their forehands. I have seen enough sales tapes of European 3-4 year olds to know that the Europeans don't have the market cornered on correct riding style. I'm amazed that some of those horses could even get their front ends over the fences. (Sorry - this comment refers to ise@ssl post on the hunter/jumper forum concerning the IHF - I'm getting my forums confused!)
                                Thank you Hattie. Don't hold your breath. Changes will come, but not from the USHJA that takes our $$$ every year!
                                ~ Bill Rube ~
                                http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                                Check us out on Facebook

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by SilverBalls View Post
                                  Credit for the 3 year old hunter hack idea belongs to Tish Quirk. I love to pick her brain about this stuff. She is a wealth of knowledge. I think it's the perfect solution. Let the 4-5 year olds jump the courses.

                                  Chanda, thanks for providing the information on the horses Pine Tree was so concened about, and had so much difficulty locating. I expect it will get easier to track the horses as the IHF program matures. So many people change a horse's name when they buy it. I do EVERY single time.
                                  Please read more carefully. I was not the one that said the results could not be found. That would have been Leland. I'm the one that was able to find a number of the IHF horses. At least yell at the right person. LOL

                                  Didn't you say you couldn't follow Pwynn's posts? I wonder if there's a connection or you need better glasses .....
                                  Fan of Sea Accounts

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by CBoylen View Post

                                    In the 4 year old sweepstakes:
                                    Sands of Time- did pregreens/adults in 2005, nothing listed since
                                    Winter Gold- pregreens/adults in 2005, nothing listed since
                                    Barkentine- did two shows of childrens/misc this year
                                    Gold's Gone Fishing- ?? changed name??

                                    Maybe Pinetreefarm will fill in the ones I wasn't able to.
                                    My understanding is that Gold's Gone Fishing's name was shortened to
                                    "Gone Fishing". Showed back in 2005 at WEF and then was sold. No idea what present name is. I was able to find the WEF results-just one show.
                                    Fan of Sea Accounts

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I have an Absolut Mocha at my barn that has done conformation hunters and now shows in the A/A hunters quite successfully. We also have a Steal the Scho who was IHF champion west coast at 4 and shows in the A/A's currently. We have a Scho Down that shows in the Children's Jumpers too.
                                      Just some more to add to your list.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        As someone that used to nominate and now does not I can say that I have taken the time to not only call and speak to the IHF folks about my concerns/suggestions but have also written letters outlining the parts of the program that I feel make it not ideal for the horses welfare as well as geographically unusable for many regions of the country. I was told that changes were being worked on several years ago but when no changes came we decided to quit nominating unless specifically requested by a breeder. I wish the program could be tweaked to gain support around all regions of the country.

                                        I LOVE the idea of a hunter hack for the 3yo's...this is brilliant and does remove the challenge of a full course for horses so young and lets them showcase just their natural jump with a much simpler concept. Still a lot to ask of a 3yo but I think a really good idea. And... just for the record...I wouldn't send a 3yo through a 100 DT either...too much work too young in my opinion....just my opinion...

                                        I think the IHF really needs to work on more regional programs....maybe something in each zone...I don't know...just something where you can get there in one day from all parts of the country would be really nice.

                                        The IJF changed their format and I think the IHF could steal some ideas from them to make the program more available for the entire country.
                                        Andrea Clibborn-Anderson
                                        www.crestlinefarm.com
                                        Home of Pinto Dutch Warmblood Palladio

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          2002 (I think) overall IHF reserve champion "Gold Mine" went on to have a very successful career in both the first year and second year green, and then won a bit in the large juniors , all at AA shows. I think he now shows in the childrens or adults with his owner.
                                          www.midatlanticeq.com
                                          Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                                          November 11-13, 2016

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