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How do I find out which registry this horse belongs to???

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  • How do I find out which registry this horse belongs to???

    I recently purchased a rescue horse that is supposed to be an imported Holsteiner. I didn't get any paperwork with him at all. There is no brand. Do all the big registries do DNA typing with their registrations? Anyone have any ideas for me? It's greatly appreciated!!!! (He's 17 years old)

  • #2
    He should have a brand if he's a registered Warmblood.

    Comment


    • #3
      I thought Germany banned hot brands in 2012?

      Have you checked for a microchip? It's probably the fastest/cheapest/least invasive way to check for identity.

      You can DNA type a horse with a registry, but you have to give them parentage to check. (e.g., We believe Dobbin is a Sire x Dam, can we please DNA verify?)
      Last edited by Katona; Aug. 11, 2017, 08:51 AM. Reason: I can't spell this early.

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      • #4
        He should have a microchip if he is in fact registered. I think he is old enough to have been branded, but there is a chance he is grade, which would mean his parents are registered but he isn't. If you know his original registered name, you can search that in a database somewhere (you might have to become a member of whatever registry you're searching though)

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        • #5
          Were the various warmblood registries DNA typing in 2000?

          The Jockey Club can take DNA and run it against the entirety of the registry to determine if the horse is one in the database--since they're usually behind the times with tech like that, I would find it shocking if other registries don't have that capability. Caveat is that there will be no match if the horse in question never submitted a DNA sample (it's not a "tell me who this horse is by/out of" tool, it's a "tell me who this horse IS" tool.)

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          • #6
            No WB registry will take DNA and try to see if it matches anything in their database - too expensive and time-consuming.

            No brand, no paperwork, "rescue", the odds are fairly good he's not even a WB, let alone HOL.

            If you were set on looking for his pedigree, I'd probably post his picture either here, or on the Warmblood Breeders Group FB group (the one with no apostrophe, as there's a smaller one with "Breeder's" in the name), and see if anyone thinks he's the spitting image of X stallion, or X line, and then you could possibly start there with asking for a comparison to that stallion or something. But that's not cheap to ask for either.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JB View Post
              No WB registry will take DNA and try to see if it matches anything in their database - too expensive and time-consuming.
              The Jockey Club does this for $80 or $85, and apparently it's just a couple computer clicks on their end. It's neither expensive nor time consuming.

              I know nada about WB registries, but really--the JC has been doing this for awhile, and they're usually on the tail end of this sort of thing, not the bleeding edge.

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              • #8
                I believe you have to know who the horse is to run DNA against their database. I don't think the JC just tests it and it spits out a name.
                McDowell Racing Stables

                Home Away From Home

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                  I believe you have to know who the horse is to run DNA against their database. I don't think the JC just tests it and it spits out a name.
                  Not true Take a horse that has been registered and DNA typed but identity has been lost, send in mane, pay your two bucks, and the JC will tell you who it is.

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                  • #10
                    A Holsteiner (imported) should have a brand.

                    As far as I know it is way to difficult to run a DNA sample through a database to find out the Pedigree. Pedigree verification is possible though.
                    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
                    2017: March: Filly by Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - SPS Prince Thatch
                    May: Finnigan - Sandro Hit - SPS Rouletto

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                    • #11
                      Finally found it:

                      http://www.tjctip.com/About/TBHSI

                      For horses born in 2001 or after that are not tattooed or for which tattoo research was unsuccessful, customers may submit a request to the Registry to DNA type the horse for comparison to the DNA types on file for registered Thoroughbreds. There is an $80 fee associated with a request to DNA type a horse. DNA typing is not available for unregistered horses.

                      Again: I know nada about WB registries, but if the JC is doing this, it seems like other registries should be able to, too.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have a friend who had one of those "warmbloods of unknown pedigree" who managed to get an ID on her horse via some sort of genetic/ID testing. Can't remember if she knew the registry or not. She was confident that she was dealing with a warmblood and that the horse was born in Europe, but I don't know if that matters.
                        The Evil Chem Prof

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Simkie View Post
                          Again: I know nada about WB registries, but if the JC is doing this, it seems like other registries should be able to, too.
                          Difference between "should" and "will" To my knowledge, they just don't. Or if they would, it would be more manual, so would cost far too much and take far too long. I could be wrong, so it would be worth asking in the Warmblood Breeders Group, as someone in that group would know for certain.

                          I remember an emaciated Affirmed dtr was identified by the JC doing their search, which is fantastic.
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JB View Post

                            Difference between "should" and "will" To my knowledge, they just don't.
                            Agreed.

                            I've had people obtain papers based on DNA of known parents, but never a wildcard search. I wonder if because of the closed bloodlines it's easier with TBs, so they're looking for specific markers? I would love to hear from someone about this.

                            When I was confirming the identity of my TB, they just wanted photos...but I had her registered name.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Katona View Post

                              Agreed.

                              I've had people obtain papers based on DNA of known parents, but never a wildcard search. I wonder if because of the closed bloodlines it's easier with TBs, so they're looking for specific markers? I would love to hear from someone about this.
                              This isn't a "tell me who the horse is by and out of" search. This is a "tell me who the horse is" search. An oversimplification, but: every horse has a specific genetic signature. That signature is entered into the database when the horse is registered. When identity is lost, you DNA the horse to obtain the signature and run against the database...and tada--you have your horse. Frankly not that different than assigning the horse a unique microchip number, only with DNA, that "number" resides in every cell of the horse's body. This has nothing to do with how closed or open the registry is.

                              And <shrug> no clue if others are doing this. But again...the JC has historically not been on the bleeding edge of tech. If anything, they've shown themselves to be late adopters. So I'd think it's worth enquiring about. The fact the JC is doing this--and has been for several years now--has been news to a lot of people in this thread (and a bunch of all y'all have said it wasn't possible at all ) so I'd not discount the possibility of various other registries having the same service available without a direct question to the registry.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Simkie View Post

                                This isn't a "tell me who the horse is by and out of" search. This is a "tell me who the horse is" search. An oversimplification, but: every horse has a specific genetic signature. That signature is entered into the database when the horse is registered. When identity is lost, you DNA the horse to obtain the signature and run against the database...and tada--you have your horse. Frankly not that different than assigning the horse a unique microchip number, only with DNA, that "number" resides in every cell of the horse's body. This has nothing to do with how closed or open the registry is.

                                And <shrug> no clue if others are doing this. But again...the JC has historically not been on the bleeding edge of tech. If anything, they've shown themselves to be late adopters. So I'd think it's worth enquiring about. The fact the JC is doing this--and has been for several years now--has been news to a lot of people in this thread (and a bunch of all y'all have said it wasn't possible at all ) so I'd not discount the possibility of various other registries having the same service available without a direct question to the registry.
                                Yes, I'm quite familiar with DNA, as I was originally minoring in Molecular Biology. I'm wondering if it's faster for TBs specifically because the gene pool is smaller (e.g., they can focus on the locus on the 13th chromosome because that's where the major differences are occurring.), where as a warmblood could literally have Trakehner, Holsteiner, Arabian, Thoroughbred, and/or ancient trotting or heavy horse in them. This is a similar situation to small gene pools in humans and not unlike the GWA Ashkenazi Jewish studies.

                                I can say with 100% confidence that most KWPN mares imported from Europe don't even have DNA on file because it says so right on their website. I'm not sure about other european registries.

                                The AHHA does have this form: http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/c81f1d...069773daab.pdf
                                But it does also ask for the horse's info. I would call/email and ask.

                                But. I still think you're better off seeing if there's a microchip to start.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Katona View Post
                                  I'm wondering if it's faster for TBs specifically because the gene pool is smaller (e.g., they can focus on the locus on the 13th chromosome because that's where the major differences are occurring.), where as a warmblood could literally have Trakehner, Holsteiner, Arabian, Thoroughbred, and/or ancient trotting or heavy horse in them. This is a similar situation to small gene pools in humans and not unlike the GWA Ashkenazi Jewish studies.
                                  I am exceedingly doubtful that the DNA test run by the JC by who--UC Davis, I think?--is ANY different than the DNA test run by any other registry. But <shrug> I dunno for sure. Their page on it sure doesn't say "we have one test for the Jockey Club and a drastically different test for breeds with a more open book."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Simkie View Post

                                    I am exceedingly doubtful that the DNA test run by the JC by who--UC Davis, I think?--is ANY different than the DNA test run by any other registry. But <shrug> I dunno for sure. Their page on it sure doesn't say "we have one test for the Jockey Club and a drastically different test for breeds with a more open book."
                                    Which is why I'm asking, as someone interested in DNA, if anyone does actually know if they are looking at particular chromosomes or Loci. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not saying my ponderings are even correct. Just asking if anyone actually knows because it's an interesting spin off.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      It sounds like the DNA test is doing a sophisticated V-lookup like in Excel but with many more variables than Excel can handle.So you have to have both the DNA of the horse in question and the DNA of all the possible matches. So that means a large population of data
                                      in many registries for the possible match. And maybe they don't have DNA on all the horses in their registries. Or maybe their computers can't handle all the data. It would be interesting to know how and what they test.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        17 years old. He should have a breed brand.

                                        http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-ne...nding-ban.aspx

                                        http://www.thehorse.com/articles/319...sia-in-germany

                                        At the very least, he should have a microchip.

                                        http://www.fve.org/about_fve/docs_to...n%20Europe.pdf

                                        My Australian Standardbred has a freeze brand.

                                        https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2012/04/...-horse-brands/

                                        http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/fbrand.htm


                                        Don't know parentage?
                                        One of the most common questions we get is whether its possible to identify the breeding of an unregistered horse from its DNA profile.

                                        Unfortunately standard DNA profiles are not powerful enough for this kind of job.
                                        http://www.practicalhorsegenetics.co...ex.php?par=mic
                                        Last edited by KittyinAus; Aug. 13, 2017, 03:58 PM. Reason: Added the last link and paragraph.

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