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TORINO

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    Approval by German Registries

    Wilson, the Hanoverian sire of Meredith Beerbaum's Sprehe Stella was never approved yet Stella and her siblings all have Hanoverian papers and their offspring are in several registries. Stella is in the breeding barn of German Olympian Soren von Roenne and full sister Evening Star has just gone to Gestut Eichenhain, VDL also had a brother. There are always exceptions.

    The Zangersheide will register any Torino offspring and the offspring of any stallion with a permanent breeding permit from a member of the WSHBF once the pedigree/family has been approved by the Z breeding committee.

    Also, 3 different team riders from Germany, Holland and Argentina wanted the ride on the Torino son, Cassino. If he is talented enough to meet everyone's expectations, he will compete for Columbia.
    www.performancesires.com Breeder and Importer of Competition Horses, Breeding Stock and Frozen Semen from the Most Successful Performance Families

    Comment


    • #22
      That is very true. Exceptions have been made, but the registries are a bit tougher on the stallions and it is a case by case scenario. I just wanted to offer caution before someone invested a lot of time and money into a stallion prospect that may not be eligible for some of the large registries as I know several stallion owners who experienced the heart break of this.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Registry exceptions

        You are very right in 95% of the cases. however, there are many considerations including the desire to bring in certain important bloodlines top and bottom, the success of the stallions and mares in the pedigree in performance and progeny and the success of the extended family. The KWPN actually has a formula they use. I use the term probability of performance.
        A stallion may have many top performing offspring but if he bred 3000 mares and many of his offspring and the resulting families are normal, this stallion does not have a high probability of performance. I would choose a stallion who bred 100 mares but 80-90% are successful in sport or successful in producing for sport.
        It is the responsability of the breeder/buyer to know this information thereby knowing if their stallion is desireable especially if he is out of an important mare whose bloodlines a registry wants as in the case of Stella and her family.
        A stallion from a normal family, even if he himself is very successful has a much lower chance of replicating his performance in subequent generations unless the mare bred to is one like the very famous SF mare Narcotique who produced 7Intl GP jumpers.
        Conversations can be had with breeding committees regarding these issues before a purchase is made or a mare bred.
        www.performancesires.com Breeder and Importer of Competition Horses, Breeding Stock and Frozen Semen from the Most Successful Performance Families

        Comment


        • #24
          Torino has a beautiful son here in Tallahassee, Elio! He's liver chestnut with white feet. Very pretty and very athletic. See more at www.majesticacresfl.com He is available for stud........and has many young, but beautiful foals on the ground! The oldest is probably only three or four though......
          www.flyingcolorsfarm.comHome of pinto stallion Claim to Fame and his homozygous son, Counterclaim. Friend us on Facebook!https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fl...04678589573428

          Comment


          • #25
            Torino has a beautiful son here too, but he is only turning 2 next week. :-)
            Dark Horse Farm

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              2 yr old Torino Son

              What is his mareline? Photos? Is he grey?
              www.performancesires.com Breeder and Importer of Competition Horses, Breeding Stock and Frozen Semen from the Most Successful Performance Families

              Comment


              • #27
                My favorite Torino is Tulip!!!!!

                Terri
                COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Performance Sires View Post
                  What is his mareline? Photos? Is he grey?
                  Can't do attachments here so I used Photobucket, the slide show cut off the pictures too much with the effects, so here's the plain album for my colt. The horrible bumps on his neck are from swamp bites, it's been terribly wet all year here and the bugs are biting like crazy. Single click on the pics below to enlarge:

                  http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s...20July%202008/

                  Just a few baby pics, yearling and two yr old pics. He's going through a gawky stage right now.

                  His mother's pedigree here:

                  http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pe...tor=Y&x=33&y=7

                  His mother was an injured, abused young horse when I bought her, greatly lacking in confidence. She has turned into Alpha Mare and Wonder Broodmare since her bad experience with bad track trainers. She has a Triple Crown winner, Whirlaway, 5 generations back on her dam's side. She is extremely athletic, sweet on the ground, hot to ride and well bred.

                  If you know of any sites with good conformation shots of Heartbreaker, I'd love to see them. From the few that I have found, this colt really resembles his granddaddy in the head, don't ya think? Same colour too.

                  Thank you for asking... :-)
                  Dark Horse Farm

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Cassino 3yr stallion son of Torino

                    Cassino does not look anything like Torino.
                    He is very much a Heartbreaker type with the bloodlines of Torino and one of the best Hanoverian jumper families.
                    Here is a video link to Heartbreaker in the Hamburg GP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ueFWST4u8
                    http://www.hofterleeuwe.com/stallion...breaker-lr.jpg

                    Cassino has no white and is a very, very dark liver chestnut. His face is much prettier than Hearbreaker or Torino with a wide forehead, big eye, shorter head and small muzzle. Will take some new photos as he is being prepared for the stallion approvals and is in good flesh.
                    www.performancesires.com Breeder and Importer of Competition Horses, Breeding Stock and Frozen Semen from the Most Successful Performance Families

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      TORINO Offspring

                      Is anyone selling their Torino offspring at this time or would it be stupid not to wait until results come in from Torino's jumping career with Anne Kursinski ?
                      I don't know if I can wait that long..I need to downsize.
                      Dark Horse Farm

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I think certainly if Torino does exceedingly well with Anne then his offspring will be even more marketable. That said, who knows what the future will bring, and if you need to sell, and get the price you want, then sell. Also, while pedigree is important, an individual will be judged on his or her own merits by the buyers, so I don't imagine it would affect the price THAT much.
                        Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

                        http://www.halcyon-hill.com

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Thanks Buschkin...you make a good point. I really hate to part with this colt as I think he's really special. It is true that an individual may have a great pedigree but each one is what it is and the buyer should see that more than anything else.

                          I read a bit about your stallion, Contempo. He is so lucky to have you. I love the Contender lines..he is quite well bred. I have a Contender stallion grandson and he is so beautiful and sweet. When you read on some of these threads about who produces what qualities, it is a common note that Contender produces really good minds.
                          Dark Horse Farm

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            We have a Torino stallion (Equinox) and a Torino mare (Gaea). Gaea is a full sister to Elio. Gaea is the larger version of Elio. Elio is 16 or 16.1 hands or so, not sure exactly. Gaea is about 17 hands and just a big girl! We own Elio and Gaea's dam, Charite, as well. There are 3 Torino sons approved by the BWP (Equinox, Elio and Fidelio). They are all from different mares and offer different positive qualities. Fidelio is owned by Tom and Christy Green of SG Sporthorses, just down the road from us. We are going the performance route with Equinox, doing dressage now and then moving to the jumpers later. Fidelio completed the 70 day test with excellent results. See Equinox at www.serenityfarmsinc.com

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Serenity, Equinox is looking more like Dad all the time. I see he is out of a 1/2 TB mare. Do you see many stallions approved that are out of a full TB mare..for instance in BWP registry. My colt is out of a full TB mare..he is becoming so stunning, I hate to geld him but I know how difficult it is to campaign a stallion and not many wish to buy one. Many nice colts have been gelded because people just don't want to deal with stallions. What percent of buyers do you guesstimate would possibly be looking for a stallion prospect?
                              Dark Horse Farm

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by dbaygirl View Post
                                I read a bit about your stallion, Contempo. He is so lucky to have you. I love the Contender lines..he is quite well bred. I have a Contender stallion grandson and he is so beautiful and sweet. When you read on some of these threads about who produces what qualities, it is a common note that Contender produces really good minds.
                                Thanks for the compliments! I am very biased but I love my stallion. I showed him myself in the AA jumpers a couple weeks ago and had a blast. I'll give the ride back to the pro soon so he can keep moving up but he's just too fun. I have my first colt by him this year and a few more on the way for 2011 so I am very excited. Good luck with whatever you decide with your boy!
                                Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

                                http://www.halcyon-hill.com

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Keeping stallions

                                  Originally posted by dbaygirl View Post
                                  Serenity, Equinox is looking more like Dad all the time. I see he is out of a 1/2 TB mare. Do you see many stallions approved that are out of a full TB mare..for instance in BWP registry. My colt is out of a full TB mare..he is becoming so stunning, I hate to geld him but I know how difficult it is to campaign a stallion and not many wish to buy one. Many nice colts have been gelded because people just don't want to deal with stallions. What percent of buyers do you guesstimate would possibly be looking for a stallion prospect?
                                  Keeping stallions requires a very different skill set or you can create a dangerous monster and risk your own safety. They will try to play with you like another colt when they are young. They have to be taught to stay out of your space, no feeding by hand. Never stand in front as they can strike or rear. I did stallion reproduction for 7 years and 25% of my time retrained colts up to 18 months who were dangerous monsters because they had not been treated or trained as stallions.
                                  I never go in the paddock of field to get one. They are trained to come to the gate when I call. If you are in their field and they decide to turn on you especially if they are a breeding stallion, they will kneel on your chest and rip the flesh from your body. Sorry to be so graphic but I have seen these one time attacks to owners with my own eyes.
                                  You need stallion paddocks 5 ft and hot wired as they will jump out if any mares are in season. At horse shows you must stay away from the other horses. The other riders do not know you are on a stallion nor do they understand the risk. What if you fall off? Some stallions are as gentle as a gelding and easy to handle BUT they are a stallion with stallion hormones and behaviors. Unless you have an exceptional colt and have been told in no uncertain terms to keep him a stallion, geld him. It costs a fortune to campaign a stallion, advertise him and then most breeders are lucky if they get 10 breedings a year. If you have 2 breeding stallions and they should somehow get out, they will fight to the death. I have seen this too.
                                  Most farms do not keep stallions and mares in the same barn.
                                  Even my 23yr old stallion who I never went into the stall with as he went through the door 1 day purposely pushed me in his stall with the side of his chest, then pressed me up against the wall with his shoulder, pushed me to the back and pushed me up against the wall again. Talk about scared. Yet perfect in the cross ties, to bath clip, load haul. I could go on and on but you get the picture.
                                  www.performancesires.com Breeder and Importer of Competition Horses, Breeding Stock and Frozen Semen from the Most Successful Performance Families

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    If stallions are such monsters and such a PITA, and such money losing propositions to keep, then why do you have two? My stallion is a perfect gentleman and has never done anything even remotely like you are suggesting. I also have two 3yo colts who are well mannered and behaved. One is getting a little hormonal and if he gets to where he can't keep it in check, he will be gelded, but so far that isn't necessary.

                                    Certainly one needs to always be aware of the fact that you are dealing with a stallion, and be more vigilant in your handling. However, if a stallion is behaving in such an unacceptable manner maybe they shouldn't be reproducing that temperament and would be best as a gelding.
                                    Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

                                    http://www.halcyon-hill.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by buschkn View Post
                                      Certainly one needs to always be aware of the fact that you are dealing with a stallion, and be more vigilant in your handling. However, if a stallion is behaving in such an unacceptable manner maybe they shouldn't be reproducing that temperament and would be best as a gelding.
                                      I wholeheartedly agree with you here, buschkn, but there are many, many people (most often at the top of sport where the big $$ is) who could care less about a stallion's vicious temperament so long as he can deliver the goods in the ring and his kids can too. I was told by a knowledgeable Irish friend of mine who worked for a large stud farm that it's common knowledge that "x2 big name Jumper studs" are both rank, dangerous monsters, yet people honestly don't care and continue to breed to them anyway, because their babies "can jump a house".

                                      I too have only come into contact with gentle, well-behaved, respectful studs (thankfully!). I dunno where all these fire-breathing dragons are, but I'm glad I've never met any of them!
                                      www.jlsporthorsesales.net

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        For the most part, I have personally known (and handled) well-behaved stallions - not knowing exactly how any of them arrived at that point (were they just lucky and born that way or very well trained). With that said, I have seen a few adult fire-breathing dragons (stallions) that people actually breed to - although I choose not to breed to them and have seen more young fire breathing dragons (colts) where owners/people try handling them like geldings/mares.
                                        As a first time upcoming stallion prospect that started out as a very cute colt, I can definitely see how the transformation starts into the fire-breathing dragon, IF left unattended.
                                        My handsome boy is two now and stands 16.2/3. He is filling out nicely and was on the verge of me personally reaching between his two hind legs and gelding him myself with my bare hands (not really - but wanted to a few times). For the last few months, he has been in training with an experienced trainer who really understands and knows how to deal with stallions and I have to say that my boy's stallionhood has been saved. I believe that he was still behaving like a very energetic colt, but in an over-sized body and with hormones kicking in.
                                        Now he has an outlet for his energy and loves to work. His trainer is very impressed with his intelligence and how quickly he picks up and retains his teachings. No fire breathing dragon for me
                                        Anney Daugherty
                                        Winsmore Farm
                                        www.winsmorefarm.com

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I have not seen a connection between bad temperaments and aggressive stallion behavior. Some stallions are not rideable or easy to handle due to the testosterone and the naughty behavior is corrected by gelding. If the behavior had been caused by a bad temperament, then it would have not been corrected by gelding the stallion. I do agree that overly aggressive stallions should be gelded, although not because I am concerned about passing on these trait but rather for the safety of the handlers and other horses. That said, I still expect the stallion to be rideable to be worthy of breeding ... after all, we are breeding for sport.

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