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Pretend I know nothing about Small(er) Pony x Horse

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  • Pretend I know nothing about Small(er) Pony x Horse

    Because I don't.

    If I'm looking at Welsh, which Section crosses better on a full sized mare?

    How about Connemaras? Any Connie Crosses I've seen have been pretty darn big horses.

    Looking to keep size down, but chest/heartgirth/haunch big, and uphill neck... Particularly don't want to shorten the neck, and a good supple back is important.

    Discuss...



    (thank you!)
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

  • #2
    Connemara crosses can be anywhere from 14.3 to pushing 16 hands and I am sure someone will chime in with a horse outside that range.

    I currently have 5 with another on the way. She's going to be a surprise, more details when I actually have her in my barn

    This stallion is a lovely boy
    http://www.hiddencreekhorses.com/our-stallion.html

    HMMMM, Miss Money Pit is open
    Last edited by carolprudm; May. 28, 2010, 08:09 AM.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

    Comment


    • #3
      Are you looking to produce a small horse, or try to get a large pony? Is the resulting foal a keeper or for sale? If you are looking for a pony, I would go with a small welsh, sec. B. If you want a smaller horse, I absolutely love the Popeye filly I bred last year, and he has a very reasonable stud fee. Or what about an andalusian or lusitano - small dressage/baroque/spotted horse sounds fun to me. I need to go back and look at the photo's of your mare again.
      Holland Brook Sporthorses
      Facebook

      Comment


      • #4
        It really depends upon what type of pony/small horse you are trying to produce and for what discipline. To produce a large pony hunter, for example, you will probably have better luck getting the type of movement and neck you want with a smaller Sec. B Welsh.
        Quicksilver Farms, LLC
        "Welsh Hunter Ponies"
        Welsh Sec. B Stallions and
        Fancy Show Pony Prospects
        www.quicksilverponies.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Not really an answer, but is this normal?

          Random observation. My friend bred her 15'2" TB mare to a welsh/cross (but his parents were both ponies too) 13'3" stallion in hopes of a large hunter pony, and the resulting filly is 2 years old and I'd guess pushing 16'

          Not sure where that size came from!
          DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
            Random observation. My friend bred her 15'2" TB mare to a welsh/cross (but his parents were both ponies too) 13'3" stallion in hopes of a large hunter pony, and the resulting filly is 2 years old and I'd guess pushing 16'

            Not sure where that size came from!

            LOL, yup, I bred my 15 hand TB/Conn mare to a 14.2 (IIRC) Connemara stallion and the colt grew to 16 hands.

            He is a very handsome boy however.

            If the OP is looking for a smaller horse how about
            http://www.blackberryridgefarm.com/s...al/gallery.swf
            I wasn't always a Smurf
            Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
            "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
            The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
              Because I don't.

              If I'm looking at Welsh, which Section crosses better on a full sized mare?
              The big question is, what do you consider to be a full size mare? 15 hands...16 hands...17 hands?

              Like Melinda said, it also depends on what you are hoping to produce and for what discipline. If you give us more information to go on, we can help answer your question better.
              www.DaventryEquestrian.com
              Home of Oldenburg, Westphalian & RPSI approved pony stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
              Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness www.EquineAppraisers.com

              Comment


              • #8
                I have wondered about this too. I had thought about possibly breeding my tb mare to a pony at some point.

                She is 15.3 and very petite, but her first foal (stallion was 17 hands) is already 16 hands at 2!

                So, I am sure the size of the mares family can come back to haunt you too. My mares father was Candi's Gold who was 16.2, but I know nothing about her mother.

                So to be safe, you would have to find a welsh pony with no size in his pedigree and under 12.2? What would be the best size range?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not necessarily under 12.2hh, but certainly under 13hh. There are many 12.3hh pony stallions and even a few at 13hh that have been successfully crossed with horse mares to produce large ponies. It is also a bit easier to keep size down if you stick with the more recently imported Welsh bloodlines as the Sec. Bs in the UK are bred to end up under 13.2hh and many are smaller. Here in the US, Sec. Bs can show up to 14.2hh and many domestic bloodlines have been bred for size.
                  Quicksilver Farms, LLC
                  "Welsh Hunter Ponies"
                  Welsh Sec. B Stallions and
                  Fancy Show Pony Prospects
                  www.quicksilverponies.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am not trying to breed ponies, but to downsize some of my mares. I am breeding my good WB mares to German Riding Ponies, and I also have a stunner by Forrest Flame, who is an approved Sport Pony Stallion. I am getting anything from about 14.1, but not built like a 'traditional' pony, but rather a small WB, with gaits to match, all the way up to 15.2 1/2h - believe it or not from a 15.1h mare to Forrest Flame at about 14.1h! You can see some pics and videos here to get an idea of how they are turning out. With the right sized rider, you can't tell they're not full sized WBs. They're just WBs in a smaller package.
                    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                    Now apparently completely invisible!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tiki View Post
                      I am not trying to breed ponies, but to downsize some of my mares. I am breeding my good WB mares to German Riding Ponies, and I also have a stunner by Forrest Flame, who is an approved Sport Pony Stallion. I am getting anything from about 14.1, but not built like a 'traditional' pony, but rather a small WB, with gaits to match, all the way up to 15.2 1/2h - believe it or not from a 15.1h mare to Forrest Flame at about 14.1h! You can see some pics and videos here to get an idea of how they are turning out. With the right sized rider, you can't tell they're not full sized WBs. They're just WBs in a smaller package.
                      Same person I mentioned before bred a different mare--a honk'n big warmblood x to a German Riding pony and at 5 he is probably 15-15'1 and is the loveliest little thing ever--great refinement and improvement over his dam who has a bit of draft in her I would guess (in addition to Hannoverian and TB). Moves like a little hunter (although the gal that bought him shows dressage). I totally agree--he's a WB in a smaller package.

                      I'll have to find out who his daddy is. He really stamped/improved that colt!
                      DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was fortunate enough to find a Connemara stallion that was small (13.2/ 13.3) as my pony foundation stallion and he crossed well on my smaller warmblood mares.

                        My current Connemara stallion is 14.2/14.3 and I get small horses by him out of the 15.2 to 16 hand warmblood mares.

                        The most consistent stallion for size for the bigger mares I have had was a half-Welsh stallion I leased for a number of years, who stood 12 hands and produced mediums and larges very consistently out of the mares.

                        What you get will depend a great deal on the background of both stallion and mare. I have two young stallions I will be using the first time this year ... both are crossbreds, one by the smaller Connemara stallion and the other by the half-Welsh stallion and out of the same small (15.1) warmblood mare. Very different types but I think both will end up maturing about the same size, in the 14 hand range.
                        Kaleidoscope Farm
                        http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
                          Because I don't.

                          If I'm looking at Welsh, which Section crosses better on a full sized mare?

                          How about Connemaras? Any Connie Crosses I've seen have been pretty darn big horses.

                          Looking to keep size down, but chest/heartgirth/haunch big, and uphill neck... Particularly don't want to shorten the neck, and a good supple back is important.

                          Discuss...



                          (thank you!)
                          There's my boy *The Quietman who has everything you're looking for (he also has 9 inches of bone at 14.2) sadly he's grey and I know you're a color breeder so greys are iffy with you. He's heterozygous for grey though.

                          http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h4...n/IMG_3790.jpg
                          http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h4...n/IMG_4215.jpg
                          http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h4...n/IMG_4231.jpg
                          http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h4...n/IMG_4236.jpg

                          Been super happy with his babies, been producing some really nice dressage prospects. Lots of power and push from behind and good canters. And he's been producing very 'cob-type' Connemaras - big deep heart-girth, hind ends, and well-set necks.

                          I wish he wasn't grey for you! Otherwise he'd be perfect for you both with what he's producing and the type of stallion you are looking for.

                          Sadly most of the Connemaras I would recommend are also grey.

                          *Glenormiston Cuchulainn (14.2) was recently gelded and is only available frozen.

                          *Gunsmoke (15.1) (a Connemara "dun" aka Buckskin was exported back to Ireland and is also available frozen only. Really like the dressage movement on the *Gunsmoke mare I have).

                          Wildwych Eclipse (just had one of my mares checked in foal to him I can't wait for next year!)
                          *Robuck - http://greyhavenfarm.com/
                          *The Quietman ~ Irish Approved Gr.1 Stallion
                          www.windyislesfarms.com
                          Like Us on Facebook

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sportpony View Post
                            What you get will depend a great deal on the background of both stallion and mare. I have two young stallions I will be using the first time this year ... both are crossbreds, one by the smaller Connemara stallion and the other by the half-Welsh stallion and out of the same small (15.1) warmblood mare. Very different types but I think both will end up maturing about the same size, in the 14 hand range.
                            Very much agreed with Sport Pony---size very much depends on the backgrounds of both sire and dam. I have a 14.1HH Connemara Stallion and most of his cross bred foals from horse mares are in the Cob-Size range (14.2-15.3) and deep bodied. The majority of the horse mares have been smaller (15.3 ish) His purebreds Connemara Foals have been remarkably consistent in both size and type from a variety of mares.

                            I also have a purebred Connemara Filly from the above stallion this season out of a 14.1HH mare who tends to throw some height---my filly is very leggy for a Purebred Foal and looks to make at least 15HH or better when finished.

                            You can see both of our Purebred Connemara Babies here:
                            http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...5&l=d81e965600

                            The brown/grey filly is:http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/redbuds+titania

                            And the Bay Colt is:http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/redb...bin+goodfellow

                            They are different types but Im very pleased with both.
                            Redbud Ranch
                            Check us out on FB

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you're looking at Welsh, the Section B's are specifically bred to be the riding ponies of the four sections. As you may already be quite aware, I'm *quite* enamoured with the Section B's. I like the temperament, body, bone, substance, but with all the "pretty" too.

                              *Wedderlie Mardi Gras, our stallion, was imported from Scotland as a yearling. He has been used on many horse breed mare -- TBs, Warmbloods, QHs, etc, and we are finding that he is doing a good job keeping the size down.

                              As Melinda mentioned above, because the UK height limit for Section B's is 13.2 hands, there is not hidden size in the pedigrees of the UK bred ponies the way there is in some lines of US bred ponies.

                              Visit this (NOT up to date) page to see some of what Mardi Gras has produced, both out of Welsh mares, and various other breeds. I have noted on each foal what the cross is: http://www.welshponies.com/mardifoals.htm
                              Family Partners Welsh Ponies - Home of Section B Welsh stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras LOM/AOE http://www.welshponies.com
                              Click here to buy: A Guide To In Hand Showing of Your Welsh Pony

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                                Random observation. My friend bred her 15'2" TB mare to a welsh/cross (but his parents were both ponies too) 13'3" stallion in hopes of a large hunter pony, and the resulting filly is 2 years old and I'd guess pushing 16'

                                Not sure where that size came from!
                                Whoa!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                                  **DROOL**

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                                    Connemara crosses can be anywhere from 14.3 to pushing 16 hands and I am sure someone will chime in with a horse outside that range.

                                    I currently have 5 with another on the way. She's going to be a surprise, more details when I actually have her in my barn

                                    This stallion is a lovely boy
                                    http://www.hiddencreekhorses.com/our-stallion.html

                                    HMMMM, Miss Money Pit is open
                                    I've been *trying* to breed my large pony mare to ArdCeltic Art. Her heat cycles are not cooperating to date and my vet was rather vexed with her on his most recent visit. We haven't even got to the point where we've been able to ask for the stallion to be collected.

                                    This is the mare I'm hoping to breed to Art:

                                    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30743766&l=5ce101bd23&id=1114381130

                                    I'm thinking/hoping for a very cool foal from this match, if Miss Difficult can ever get around to producing a follicle.....

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Lisa Cook View Post
                                      if Miss Difficult can ever get around to producing a follicle.....
                                      She must be related to Miss Money Pit, who produces a perfectly lovely "string of pearls" follicle, ovulates at the right time, no DUC....and then.............................................. ..................... NOTHING
                                      I wasn't always a Smurf
                                      Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                      "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                      The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Oooh, thank you all SO MUCH for the info and links!! Some really terrific horses here! Excellent food for thought (& research. )

                                        SASS!! Good to see you girl! You home for the summer? Or at least done school for a bit?

                                        SportPony--good to see you too. I can't get to your website at work. Whe I finally get a day off I'll have to go poke around.

                                        Little more info...

                                        Mare for this year is Waterspot More photos here

                                        Pedigree


                                        She's 15.3 or so. Probably some size in that pedigree, between the Dutch & the TB. She's not a small mare, but not huge either.

                                        While she is pinto, I am absolutely not concerned with colour when it comes to the right match.

                                        I'm also 'shopping' for the daughter of my stallion. She's bay with a handful of white hairs on her forehead and that's it. I think she's about 15.2 now? Have to stick her. I'd like a higher neck set on her, and a little more suspension, but otherwise, if it came out just like her, I'd be thrilled. Might be next year... might be sooner...

                                        I don't require staying under, I'm not looking specifically for Pony sized... just 'smaller'. Cobby.

                                        Trying to discern the fine line between what *I* want and what is marketable!

                                        Kealea... Iberian is also on the future calendar. Moreso for the bay, but not ruling out the pinto mare.
                                        InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                        Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                                        Comment

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