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Would like opinios on sedating a mare while inseminating

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  • #21
    As a vet I never had to so far but I've been called to mares quite frequently that were reported 'impossible to palpate' without tranq and/or twitching and much like Kathy describes it most mares get along just fine if you offer some time and patience and a 'happy climate' around your stocks.
    As a breeder I obviously aim at achieving the best result with as little investment as possible so avoiding unnecessary drug applications is mandatory. With more detail-work procedures such as DUI or ET'flushing I can see the point but a mare in full blown heat positioned in well designed stocks and handled by a familiar, professional person - way overdone.
    If the choice is between getting killed by a foot or sedate - I am all for sedating. But a word of caution: Sedated does not mean immobile. I've seen even heavily tranquilized horses get very quick and active and you don't want to be around when a horse shows a paradox reaction to a sedative drug. A horse that is ballistic AND uncoordinated is a much bigger risk to both itself and its environment than one that is just resistant.
    I think the modern available sedatives have rendered us a bit spoiled and sedation-happy. Given that a mare intended for breeding purposes will have to go through prodecures like rectal palpation, scans, uterine swabs/flushing and inseminations quite often in her life I'd say it's a whole lot better to teach them it's no big deal once and stick to using proper stocks as well as some main safety precautions than to drug her each time something happens.

    Re. Buscopane: I'll never understand how you've done virtually without it in equine practice for so long in North America. It really is one of the most helpful compounds over here and ranks among the few things I couldn't do without. Wasn't it used in human medicine either? Because here it's a favorite to use for menstrual pain, upset guts in kids and adults and extremely popular.
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    • #22
      Originally posted by Schiffon View Post
      It is common practice in the live cover TB-world to sedate all of the mares since the stallions are so valuable and it is never questioned.
      No, they don't. I've worked at several of the large TB farms (such as Claiborne) and we rarely sedated mares being bred. As others have mentioned, the overwhelming majority of mares in good, breedable heat will stand just fine for live cover. If the mare is acting up, she is most likely not right to be bred and they send her home un-bred. Occasionally, there is a mare that acts common on a regular basis or a maiden that will need to be sedated, but this is the exception, and having a stud jump on a mare that's been sedated is also very risky. Breeding a mare is not worth getting someone killed over in a live cover situation. If a mare can't mind her manners, she goes home.

      We do have a mare here on our farm that stands well when covered but strains and is a kicker to palp/us. We sedate, lip chain and buscopan when we check her and she tends to catch on one cover.

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      • Original Poster

        #23
        Nice to hear from a vet. I am in agreement that I do not want to sedate for the rest of her breeding life. I get it about the reactions to the tranqs to, when she bent the stocks she had a bit in her already, so he gave her more and although she kicked several more times after that when she was "knocked out" it didn't have the power the first one had. At least my vet's stocks are keeping us all safe, but I certainly do not want this to be a bad experience for her. She may be better when she's in full heat, but there are times we need to get in there to see if she is or not and where she is at in her cycle.
        Back to the tranqs, i would personally like him to try her without them, which he didn't even give her a chance first, because she has shown evidence that she gets more defensive when she's sedated.
        Any suggestions on how I can get my vet to be more patient with her without making him annoyed? I think I will take some feed with me when we go on Monday.
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        • #24
          My vet is a larger man and I have ponies so he does use Buscopan to help them relax their muscles and not strain so hard. Honestly my oldest mare doesn't need it but he told me he does it for all ponies. When his associate comes out, who is a small woman, they don't get anything. I am all about trying to keep costs down so if it isn't necessary for his safety (it isn't), then I would prefer he doesn't do it. We try to make it as pleasant of an experience as possible. However, if I had a mare that was dangerous in any way to vet or handler she would be sedated without question. Nothing is worth someone getting injured.
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          • #25
            We always sedate maidens - especially the pony mares. If a mare is acting up - we will sedate. It's more important for every one involved horse and human is safe. Being able to say we never sadate and put people at risk - makes no sense.

            Also with the pony mares the angle for the Vets - especially tall ones does make it more challenging so we feel sedating makes it easier.
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            • #26
              Can some one explain please how the buscopan works? i am in Australia and yes you can buy it at pharmacies etc, but have never seen a vet use it

              I do my own Ai work and have a couple of mares that strain quite badly.

              Is it an IV shot and do you give it the same way you would give sedation?

              Paulamc

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              • #27
                Originally posted by paulamc View Post
                Can some one explain please how the buscopan works? i am in Australia and yes you can buy it at pharmacies etc, but have never seen a vet use it

                I do my own Ai work and have a couple of mares that strain quite badly.

                Is it an IV shot and do you give it the same way you would give sedation?

                Paulamc
                Yes, IV. Generally used for colic to relax the smooth muscle. Therefore, it helps with a mare that strains. Here's the label from Boehringer's website.

                http://bi-vetmedica.com/product/buscopan

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Kareen View Post
                  Re. Buscopane: I'll never understand how you've done virtually without it in equine practice for so long in North America. It really is one of the most helpful compounds over here and ranks among the few things I couldn't do without. Wasn't it used in human medicine either? Because here it's a favorite to use for menstrual pain, upset guts in kids and adults and extremely popular.
                  Weird, eh? I know it's been used for years in Europe and especially for colic. So surprising that it took so long to get approval over here. Can't comment on it's use in human medicine.

                  Paulamc, as Las Olas noted, it relaxes smooth muscles, so makes the contractions and straining normally associated with palpating or ultrasounding, considerably less. It is not an analgesic, so it doesn't mask pain, which is really beneficial if you're dealing with a colic. If it's a spasmodic colic, the horse will get relief, but for something like an impaction colic, it's not going to hide things if they get worse and therefore you'll not be masking a problem.

                  Hope that helps!
                  Last edited by Equine Reproduction; May. 23, 2010, 11:27 AM.
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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by can't re- View Post
                    My vet does tranquilize and give buscopan to all mares being bred with frozen. She does deep uterine horn insemination, so still and relaxed makes her job easier.
                    Since we use the same (remarkable) vet, I had to chime in and say TQ makes the procedure a non event for both the mare and the vet! PS I have two(out of two) in foal using this protocol...The mares never have a chance to get hysterical about having someones arm in any orifice and a calm mare is a happy mare...
                    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

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                    • #30
                      Just had my maiden mare inseminated last week and she didn't require any tranq or for the ultrasounds but she is generally easy to handle. My vet is very experienced and has a calm demeanor and works very quickly which I think made it a non-event for her, just like it was for her dam the first time.

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