• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

stallions with Amatuer friendly brains...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    The list of stallions that produce amateur friendly offpsring is only limited by the number of people that respond to this question. Most good stallions are proven performers, and frankly they are generally subjected to highly restricted lives, with more confinement and less freedom , even to express themselves than other horses . It takes tremendous strength of mind for them to remain sane, respectful and well mannered when they rarely have choices. Stallions that have shown, have in some cases shipped hundreds of miles as a trooper on a rig full of other horses, performs like a trooper on someone elses schedule, sometimes breeds mornings or evenings to meet obligations to mares, hangs around endlessly waiting for classes, jump offs, braiding , whatever. They ship to shows where they have different neighbours, different bedding, different feed and water available, even different handlers and they take it all in stride. One show we were at had about 30 hunter jumper stallions and there was nary an example of bad behaviour out of the entire lot, infact I see countless examples every show where people around have NO CLUE who is a stallion, backing mares in front of you and proceeding to walk a few feet ahead through a crowded ingate while you patiently have a stallion in hand behind them and no where else to move to.
    And horsemanship in the hands of professionals is not neccessarily profoundly more skilled than amateurs.

    In general I find that how you raise the offspring has a more subjective bearing on the horse you will have and its amateur suitability. There may truly be a few stallions that do not throw amateur friendly offspring, or dams for that matter but I personally have yet to encounter a problematic youngster that I could attribute to the breeding, I truly have not. I have bred to jumper stallions and I have been delighted to find the youngsters are as docile and easygoing and nonproblematic regardless of sire.

    Now I think the question would be "how do you raise your horses to be confident, trusting, willing and amateur friendly?".

    My horses have been by my own stallions Cotopaxi and Raffaello, also Cicero, Crack, Capone, Cantour and so on...

    Synergy Sport Horses
    http://www.synergysporthorses.net

    Comment


    • #42
      Hi Jump

      While I agree the external enviromental factor is a large part of the equation in a developing personality.....there still genetics involved that influence the personality.
      I have the bitch mare to prove it. ;-) ANd her offspring is NOTHING like her. The stallion I chose was EXTREMELY prepotent TG.

      Plus....ask yourself, does your personality reflect more of your mother or father?
      I know who I take after. LOL!

      Comment


      • #43
        does your personality reflect more of your mother or father?
        I know who I take after. LOL!

        I have a theory that seems to be 90% accurate and I tested it with hundreds of offspring. We can all see the exterior likeness of a parent but I think the coat color has a connection with the inner qualities. The offsprings character will be most like the parent with like color. I have had sensitive mares that produced much more like the stallion when the color matched the stallion and be much the same as the mare when they had her color. It obviously does not always work as with a third color or if the parent have the same color but that is a small group. It is a fun game but the theory seems to hold up very well.
        Putting that together my theory, this may well be one of the reasons Landkoenig transmits his easy temperament virtually every time as he is homozygous. Even his Grand Prix winning offspring is easy to ride and get rave remarks from the riders.

        All our stallions have been able to produce amateur friendly offspring, it is a requirement for a succesfull breeding program along with having enough excitement in quality and the ability to produce that concistently.

        Because of the wide variety of mares and breeds offered to stallions in the US the stallions standing in the US have to be stronger, more consistent producers to be succesfull. It is hard for mare owners to judge a stallion by his own behavior in and performance because some do not produce their own qualities at all or not consistently.
        As our ads would say years ago: "the proof is in the progeny"
        www.immunallusa.com
        www.rainbowequus.com Home of stallions that actually produced champion hunter, jumper and dressage offspring and now also champion eventers

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #44
          Aahh... the ol' nature vs. nurture issue. Where as nurture obviously matters, there is also something to be said for genetics. And when considering to breed, its important, in my mind, to take into consideration the characteristics that you want and those that you do not. Most of us have had experince with those who were much more difficult to train and teach. Mine have been raised the same way, and yet do not always turn out the same. some just have that little something that makes them take a bit longer to get going. Some may argue its a breed thing.. I don't know. But I do not take breeding lightly. Which is why I married my husband

          Comment


          • #45
            Edgar

            I think I have to agree about your color theory.
            I haven't produced tons of foals to compare, but what I have fits your color coat theory. How interesting.


            Do you consider Pablo prepotent? If I put on my breeding cap again, he's definitely the man.

            Comment


            • #46
              Canaan Ranch's, Donates, has a wonderful brain and rideability for AA's. His do quite well at the breed shows too. http://canaanranch.net/horse%20pages...es%20page.html

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Glorybee View Post
                Aahh... the ol' nature vs. nurture issue. Where as nurture obviously matters, there is also something to be said for genetics. And when considering to breed, its important, in my mind, to take into consideration the characteristics that you want and those that you do not.
                Makes sense to me!

                I know I've read many times on this board that one pretty much should consider if they would be happy with a clone of their mare, same temperment, looks, movement/jump, etc. and if not, don't breed her. I look at my mare, and believe I would be thrilled if I end up with the exact replica of her. But when I go to breed her, an "amateur friendly stallion" is very high on my list of important qualities. I opened this thread very interested in seeing who posters feel are proven sires for such breeding. I recognize that some are young, still unproven stallions-Westporte, Redwine-so I'm eager to learn which stallions are producing quality hunters that go on to be great amatuer friendly mounts. I think Rio Grande was one, but unfortunately has passed away. Alla Czar seems to be pretty popular, but I don't know anything about him (or his offspring).

                Very interesting topic!

                Comment


                • #48
                  Underdog - Pablo is very pre potent especially for his type. He puts them out like a cookie cutter! Lots of increadible movers too.
                  www.immunallusa.com
                  www.rainbowequus.com Home of stallions that actually produced champion hunter, jumper and dressage offspring and now also champion eventers

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Shine is the quietest hunter stallion I have ever seen and I have heard his offspring are that way, too. I met him at a show in Va. having his braids removed while ground-tied, eyes at half mast, in the barn aisle. I led my 2 year old stud colt right by him and he never turned a hair.

                    If quiet is what you want, I'd definitely look into that one.
                    http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Edgar, that is fascinating and now as I think about it, I would concur. But--I have a question, what if the foal has neither parents color, ie- grey sire, bay dam, chestnut foal?

                      nancy
                      Home of Ironman: GOV, BWP, RPSI, CSHA, AWR, ISR Oldenburg, CWHBA, CSHA, CS, and PHR.
                      www.ironmanonline.com

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        There was a mention of Irish horses and I will second that. If you want an amatuer friendly horse that will do the hunters or jumpers look at breeding to anything with Irish Blood. They are so easy to deal with, reliable and athletic.
                        Westglen Farm
                        Home of In Shining Armor, RID
                        www.westglenfarm.net

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Nancy-

                          What was Ironman's base color?

                          I don't think that you can guarantee an amateur friendly stallion to "pass it on". There is the mare part of the equation as well as how the foal is raised (I know this has been stated ad nauseum). That said, I do believe some stalllions are more prepotent than others in influencing temperament. I know of several breeders who won't look at a TB for their "hot" mare, a WB will "cool them down".

                          HOGWASH!!!

                          My former stallion Mandarin (TB) only ever had one foal that I would consider difficult in the temperament department - she was out of my parent's stakes producing broodmare, and I believe the filly didn't get the time spent with her from the beginning because she was the last foal and my parents didn't consider her racehorse material as she wasn't sired by a race stallion (incidentally, they sold most of this mare's produce at Saratoga Select Yearling Sales for large amounts - Irish Tower, Apalachee, Singh, Key to the Kingdom, Spectacular Bid, Johns Gold, Cormorant, and Buckpoint were some of the stallions they used - this was back in the late 70's/early 80's). Most of Mandarin's get were full TB and most went on to have pretty decent show records as amateur mounts -- most were out of "hot" mares. I think that people need to look at the individual, not the breed when looking at temperament. My point is - A Fine Romance gave me two of the easiest colts ever, and I have a filly by Minister General that is unbelievably sweet and laid back.

                          I also agree that the life of a show stallion is hard on everyone involved. You have NO idea how many mares have been parked right under Yak's nose at the ingate, or baby strollers that have been parked under his tail!!!! He is my last son of Mandarin and has been left intact because he is such a good boy. It has gotten to the point in his career however, that I have made the decision to geld him after the next breeding season. I am currently freezing semen, but I think he will be so much happier being able to be a horse, and cart a kid around in the Large Juniors. I will still have him "on ice"...

                          Personally, from what I have bred to outside stallions in the past, I LOVE all my babies, but the easiest were the AFR, and my Hall of Fame filly.
                          I gotta do-over and am doin it my way!!!

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Hi Jump View Post
                            The list of stallions that produce amateur friendly offpsring is only limited by the number of people that respond to this question. Most good stallions are proven performers, and frankly they are generally subjected to highly restricted lives, with more confinement and less freedom , even to express themselves than other horses . It takes tremendous strength of mind for them to remain sane, respectful and well mannered when they rarely have choices. Stallions that have shown, have in some cases shipped hundreds of miles as a trooper on a rig full of other horses, performs like a trooper on someone elses schedule, sometimes breeds mornings or evenings to meet obligations to mares, hangs around endlessly waiting for classes, jump offs, braiding , whatever. They ship to shows where they have different neighbours, different bedding, different feed and water available, even different handlers and they take it all in stride. One show we were at had about 30 hunter jumper stallions and there was nary an example of bad behaviour out of the entire lot, infact I see countless examples every show where people around have NO CLUE who is a stallion, backing mares in front of you and proceeding to walk a few feet ahead through a crowded ingate while you patiently have a stallion in hand behind them and no where else to move to.
                            And horsemanship in the hands of professionals is not neccessarily profoundly more skilled than amateurs.

                            In general I find that how you raise the offspring has a more subjective bearing on the horse you will have and its amateur suitability. There may truly be a few stallions that do not throw amateur friendly offspring, or dams for that matter but I personally have yet to encounter a problematic youngster that I could attribute to the breeding, I truly have not. I have bred to jumper stallions and I have been delighted to find the youngsters are as docile and easygoing and nonproblematic regardless of sire.

                            Now I think the question would be "how do you raise your horses to be confident, trusting, willing and amateur friendly?".

                            My horses have been by my own stallions Cotopaxi and Raffaello, also Cicero, Crack, Capone, Cantour and so on...

                            Synergy Sport Horses
                            http://www.synergysporthorses.net
                            I disagree there. I give it 50% nature/50% nurture. All our foals are raised the same here and they have very different temperments at times.
                            Providence Farm
                            http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              If you come from a large family you will find a variety of personalities. Why would horse families be different? But mitochondrial dna comes directly from the motherline, so that might have something to do with familial energy efficiency levels.
                              Anne
                              -------
                              "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                some stallions do pass on a temperment who is quieter, less reactive the type of horse who does well wtih us 'mere mortals' that try to ride these youngsters. One that REALLKY pops to my head is OXFORD and WARKANSON

                                Yes mare temperment plays in, and yes that doesn't mean ALL foals by those stallions are great easy to deal with horses. i'm sure some are hotter, some are a bit more sensitive. We have quite a few Warkanson babies in our barn- and almost all of them are the type you can throw a kid on after a few weeks under saddle- will pack their owners around a course- wait rather then react type horses. But we got one who is a spitfire- sensitive and hot- a great mare- not 'crazy' just not an amature type of horse- talent oozing out of her pores *L* but she is a lot more reactive and alot hotter then her full brother.
                                Qualified Saddle Fitter with the S.M.S.
                                www.ravenwoodaussies.com

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Without a doubt POPEYE K.
                                  www.horseshoeglenfarm.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by fish View Post
                                    Shine is the quietest hunter stallion I have ever seen and I have heard his offspring are that way, too. I met him at a show in Va. having his braids removed while ground-tied, eyes at half mast, in the barn aisle. I led my 2 year old stud colt right by him and he never turned a hair.

                                    If quiet is what you want, I'd definitely look into that one.
                                    I totally agree. I saw Shine at a show in Tyler over the weekend and really "met" him and talked to his owner. He is an absolute doll. Adorable jump, gorgeous, and his temperament is unbelievable. His owner showed him in the adults. For the first time in my 18 year riding career it made me want to learn more about breeding & to possibly find a nice mare to cross with him. My current amateur gelding is a complete a$$. The older I get, the more I value temperment. I was very impressed.
                                    Animals are not disposable!!!
                                    http://www.pawsnela.org

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I've had a very quiet Just the Best, Don Alfredo and Chaka Khan. I've heard Shine has a wonderful temperment also.
                                      Last edited by grayfox; Nov. 12, 2007, 11:58 AM. Reason: poor spelling
                                      www.grayfoxfarms.com Home of Redwine, Aloha, Federalist, Romantic Star and Rated R.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Edgar View Post
                                        I have a theory that seems to be 90% accurate and I tested it with hundreds of offspring. We can all see the exterior likeness of a parent but I think the coat color has a connection with the inner qualities. The offsprings character will be most like the parent with like color. I have had sensitive mares that produced much more like the stallion when the color matched the stallion and be much the same as the mare when they had her color. It obviously does not always work as with a third color or if the parent have the same color but that is a small group. It is a fun game but the theory seems to hold up very well.
                                        What an interesting theory! I have to agree with you after thinking about this for less than 5 minutes.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I would also suggest Don Principe of Marydell Farm (Marydell also posts here so please chime in!!). He's an amazing stallion, very calm and cool and seems almost unruffled about anything.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X