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Blue eyes and White faces in Warmbloods

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  • #41
    Yes, many owners of non-pigmented eye area horses do the "eyeliner tatooing". I agree also that HB horses will have to grow up and prove performance. Some do, some don't, some go straight to the breeding shed. For me, HB and DSHB are interrum steps and can enhance an eventual performance career resume. It's also a place to showcase what you're breeding and maybe result in the youngster's sale. It's fun, for me, and a way to get the babies out. It's a way to meet people and learn the business. Sometimes it isn't difficult to place the best horse in an inhand class. It's placing the flaws on the line in some type of logical order that's difficult! I'd put blue eyes way, way at the bottom of conformational priorities, if at all, at all! Silly me!

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    • #42
      Originally posted by dianehalpin View Post
      Yes, many owners of non-pigmented eye area horses do the "eyeliner tatooing".
      I have never heard of this... does it work? When would you consider this? Is it for all eye colors?
      ~ Bill Rube ~
      http://www.bydesignfarm.com
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      • #43
        I've never done it and, fortunately, not had to but, at the APHA World Show, many, many entries have had the eyeliner tatooing. I don't know how dangerous it is while the tatooing is being done, but it seems to be protective and doesn't look too strange. On some horses, it looks fairly natural and can be done with all eye colors to protect non-pigmented skin around the eye. i honestly don't know even where to go to have it done! Maybe JB knows....?

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        • #44
          Luckily there are some who realize the fallacy of the "white hooves = softer/defective" mentality, and it's really time that others get their heads out of the dark ages
          ______________________________
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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          • #45
            Eyeliner tatoos - I don't know how to find someone who does it either, but I imagine it would be pretty simple by just contacting a few APHA barns.

            You DO have to have it declared as being done for health reasons, since it's technically illegal to alter the coloring of the horse that way. But having it done for health reasons makes it absolutely show-legal.

            It's not really about the eye color, it's about the pink skin right at the eyes which is the issue. But too, when combined with light eyes, which *can* be more light-sensitive than dark eyes, the pink skin/white hair serves as a reflective platter and can worsen the light sensitivity issue. Then there is the sunburn/cancer issue as well.

            Done well it does look perfectly natural. There are horses who are apron-faced but have natural eyeliner due to Sabino's influence attempting to keep white off the eyes, and they look like they were born with eyeliner already installed I have a cool calendar picture right here at my desk, taken by Mark Barrett, showing just a horse - white face, blue eyes rimmed with black
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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            • #46
              Originally posted by JB View Post
              Luckily there are some who realize the fallacy of the "white hooves = softer/defective" mentality, and it's really time that others get their heads out of the dark ages
              Don't you mean a certain dark orifice??
              Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
              http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

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              • #47
                *snicker* I was trying to be a little polite
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                • #48
                  I'll weigh in on the blue eyes only based on opinion. I will not buy/show/own a horse with blue eyes ever. Just as blue eyes are scientifically proven in humans to be the most light sensitive it has been my experience the same in horses. That just in from the sun blindness you get in humans and horses seems to take blue eyes longer to adjust to. I do not show now but I did when I was younger. I actually bought a medicine hat paint(top hat and shield) and had a helluva time with him in the sun to shade transfer. I don't particularly like the apron face horses as they get pink eye and burn horribly here in Texas. Putting SPF 50 sunblock on my horse and war paint (I didn't know about tat eyeliner at that point.) is a PITA I do not want to repeat ever. I do however adore the high whites on the legs and consider my lucky markings to be 4 white feet be they socks, coronets, or stockings.
                  Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
                  Originally Posted by alicen:
                  What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.

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                  • #49
                    We have a pony by the GRP Makuba out of a Welsh A mare by Sleight of Hand. He's black bay with stockings behind and socks in front and a blaze that DOES NOT tough his eyes and crystal blue eyes. We've had mixed feed back from Hunter people. But the bottom line is that he has correct conformation, super mover and outstanding little jumper. So who gives a rat's behind if his eyes are blue. I would never turn down a good horse or pony over eye color.
                    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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                    • #50
                      I love seeing the Splash blue eyes on a dark eye area

                      http://morgancolors.com/faircrestdarkknight.jpg
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                      • #51
                        Well, I've never been color predjudice, or any type of predjudice for that matter so I never understand these threads. I understand if someone has a preference for one color or another but to bash a color (eye, body or whatever) is pretty closed minded and not very nice to the people who really like it. I hate nuts in my icecream but yet I never get on my husband about eating it (well I do but not because of the nuts, he doesn't need the calories nor I) so I think it's wrong for an impartial judge to judge against a horse due to eye color or amount of white.

                        By the way, I own the filly MistyJewel posted about that is all Dutch and will be registered Foalbook KWPN-NA. She is by Ijselmeer Ikepono and out of a Ferro mare. Here is a few more pics of her for example. She is bred for dressage so less chance of discrimination thank goodness.
                        Attached Files
                        www.lazyjsporthorses.com

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by ljshorses View Post
                          Well, I've never been color predjudice, or any type of predjudice for that matter so I never understand these threads. I understand if someone has a preference for one color or another but to bash a color (eye, body or whatever) is pretty closed minded and not very nice to the people who really like it. I hate nuts in my icecream but yet I never get on my husband about eating it (well I do but not because of the nuts, he doesn't need the calories nor I) so I think it's wrong for an impartial judge to judge against a horse due to eye color or amount of white.

                          By the way, I own the filly MistyJewel posted about that is all Dutch and will be registered Foalbook KWPN-NA. She is by Ijselmeer Ikepono and out of a Ferro mare. Here is a few more pics of her for example. She is bred for dressage so less chance of discrimination thank goodness.
                          Interesting you should say that. I don't do dressage but have many friends who do dressage, and ride to upper levels. They told me that (at least in Europe) lots of white on the legs is not admired nor desired - felt to interfere with evaluation of movement or something to that effect.
                          "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



                          www.dontlookbackfarm.com

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                          • #53
                            3Dogs, I've heard that too. All else equal, they will choose matching white legs, or no white. Mis-matched leg white is a big thing for them to try to steer clear of if possible.
                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                            • #54
                              yes, but that filly, while having a lot of white, actually has the legs that are matching *grin*

                              But all of this cracks me up b/c there are people out there that love white, and people that hate it. Just like some people love TBs, some WBs, and some arabs. I think you're always going to find someone in any disipline who's a judge that discriminates, knowingly or not, against something.

                              I've seen the above silly move, and she's going to be a nice dressage prospect, and probably a pretty darn nice jumper too. So I'm sure there's someone out there that is going to love her for her, just like there's people that love the plain bays for them being plain bays but super nice movers.

                              But as for blue eyes being *defects*?? It's a genetic mutation, but hardly a defect any more then a gray horse is a defect. And personally, I have blue eyes, and have better eye sight then many non-blue eyed people I know (ie I have perfect vision, don't need glasses or anything, good night vision, no real issues) so while yes, so me can have light sensitivity, I'm sure some brown eyed horses can have bad vision, just like some apps have moon blindness even if they have solid colored faces and brown eyes...

                              And what about the single and double dilutes? Their eyes are lighter in color, are they looked down upon? Again, sure you can have your personal issue with it, but I don't think its fair to say it's a genetic defect akin to a club foot or crooked knee?
                              ---------------------------

                              ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~

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                              • #55
                                Single dilutes have normal eye color (Splash blues aside), but yes, double dilutes do have blue eyes, just a different shade of blue than the Splash blue

                                And yes, there are people who TOTALLY cannot stand the double dilutes for both their color and their "creepy" eyes.
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                • #56
                                  The single dilutes I've seen all have lighter colored eyes, usually a hazel looking color *grin* just not "blue" like the double dilutes do. But I guess my point is that yes some people don't like them, and that's, I don't ever want to own a chestnut filly, but I wouldn't call one a genetic defect, lol. But the dilutes aren't looked down upon quite the same way i don't think.
                                  ---------------------------

                                  ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~

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                                  • #57
                                    Normal colored horses can have that hazel eye (it's a really, really cool color IMO ), and champagne will also make a horse look "dilute" and also give him a hazely-green/blue eye.
                                    ______________________________
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                    • #58
                                      ^ Owned a wholly unimpressive chestnut mare (in every way, breeding, conformation, grumpy, and she was the color of a cardboard box) with an unassuming blaze and the must BEAUTIFUL hazel/greenish eyes I've ever seen. Snot of a ride too, I held on to her far too long for those eyes alone I think.

                                      Also owned a cremello mare with 'creepy' blue eyes and she did indeed have vision problems and needed sun screen/fly masks and sheets/the works. Just as my meager two cents, however, I think its the risk you take on owning a horse in general with a more 'nonstandard' color and it does come down to preference. For example, though I have an affinity for greys I wouldn't purchase one specifically because of their tendency for melanomas. I wouldn't consider it a 'fault' or 'flaw' necessarily, just personal preference.

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                                      • #59
                                        Just because its cool light/amber eyes with no cream

                                        http://www.accphotography.com/galler.../0219.jpg.html
                                        http://www.accphotography.com/galler...219-2.jpg.html
                                        Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
                                        http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

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                                        • #60
                                          As I mentioned in the 'brag about your foal' sticky, this type of colouring in a well bred warmblood would be considered VERY unusual here in New Zealand. And also very desirable. I think he's a lovely foal.

                                          About the blue eye thing... I personally do not like blue eyes. Mostly it's the pink skin around them (tatooing is not commonly done here). But I would never judge against the horse because of my own personal taste.

                                          Quite some years ago I bred a pinto warmblood - unofficially the second one in New Zealand and the first to go to shows. I showed that colt in a number of warmblood and sport horse in-hand shows as a young horse. He certainly stood out! I got very used to being told I was mistakenly in the wrong ring, at the wrong show, etc... and there were judges that didn't know how to place this colt. But after two seasons of getting out and about, most people had got used to seeing him around. He won several championships as a yearling and even more as a two year old.

                                          I guess what I'm trying to say is give it time and the general concensus regarding blue eyes will change.

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