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Blue eyes and White faces in Warmbloods

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  • #21
    thanks the thumbnail view - do you have the bigger view?

    And thanks!!
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment


    • #22
      The pictures are adorable!

      However, I have to say that I do not care for blue eyes in the hunters. Some consider it a "conformation defect characterised by reduced pigmentation".

      It's a matter of taste...
      ~ Bill Rube ~
      http://www.bydesignfarm.com
      Check us out on Facebook

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      • #23
        Blue eyed KWPN Filly Bleu SCF Ster

        Here are some photos of our KWPN filly Bleu SCF Ster (Balou du Rouet X Silvio 1 Elite Preferent (Sandro Z)). Dam and sire are both Sabino. FYI.
        Attached Files
        Sporting Chance Farm/Dr Carlos and Karin Jimenez
        Breeders of International Quality KWPN Horses
        2006 KWPN-NA Breeders of the Year/2006 Res CH USDF DSHB Breeders Year
        www.sportingchancefarm.com

        Comment


        • #24
          And here is a FULL sister to Bleu, Dulce de Leche, my "white face" filly!

          Below are photos of Dulce de Leche SCF. She was a First Premium foal, and is shown here as a foal (with her ET Dam), and then as a yearling. Dulce is a full sister to Bleu SCF Ster (posted above), and also to my Mother's Day present, born yesterday, a conservatively marked, gorgeous, bay colt (as yet un-named), photo below....
          Attached Files
          Sporting Chance Farm/Dr Carlos and Karin Jimenez
          Breeders of International Quality KWPN Horses
          2006 KWPN-NA Breeders of the Year/2006 Res CH USDF DSHB Breeders Year
          www.sportingchancefarm.com

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by SilverBalls View Post
            The pictures are adorable!

            However, I have to say that I do not care for blue eyes in the hunters. Some consider it a "conformation defect characterised by reduced pigmentation".

            It's a matter of taste...
            Then why isn't any white marking considered a "conformation defect characterised by reduced pigmentation"

            The whole color thing, and what used to be thought of as unhealthy, just needs to be done with.

            Taste is a different story, that will always vary. But in the end it does not affect how the horse performs.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by JB View Post
              Taste is a different story, that will always vary. But in the end it does not affect how the horse performs.
              I agree 100%
              ~ Bill Rube ~
              http://www.bydesignfarm.com
              Check us out on Facebook

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              • #27
                Originally posted by SilverBalls View Post
                I agree 100%
                To further the concept here - whether there is a LOT of color or NO color makes little difference in the end - if a horse is talented - we gotta hope that is all that matters!

                I watch top hunters all the time - greys, bays with no white, chestnuts with white, etc etc - long as they can move and jump well - !!!!!! - they can win.

                Congratulations Graves plural!!!!
                "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



                www.dontlookbackfarm.com

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                • #28
                  I should have been more specific. I believe it would be a big negative in hunter breeding ie: showing on the line.
                  ~ Bill Rube ~
                  http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                  Check us out on Facebook

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    That's part of my point too - WHY should it be? I mean really, if a judge cannot judge the conformation because he's wigged out by blue eyes...

                    Color has got to stop being a prejudice thing when it comes to judging, *unless* the judging is partly based on color (ie there are palomino shows, can't take a bay in there LOL).

                    If people automatically avoid these colorful horses in venues where color is perceived to have a disadvantage, things will never change.
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by JB View Post
                      That's part of my point too - WHY should it be? I mean really, if a judge cannot judge the conformation because he's wigged out by blue eyes...

                      Color has got to stop being a prejudice thing when it comes to judging, *unless* the judging is partly based on color (ie there are palomino shows, can't take a bay in there LOL).

                      If people automatically avoid these colorful horses in venues where color is perceived to have a disadvantage, things will never change.
                      I have never avoided a horse of color. I have owned and shown a buckskin and 2 palominos. ALL won on the line.
                      You cannot compare blue eyes ( considered to be a defect due to pigmentation ) to the actual color of a horse like palomino, paint etc. You could however do so if they had blue eyes.

                      I do understand your frustration re: horses of color. Once again that's why they have different venues. Call me "old school", but blue eyes are right up there with other conformation flaws which are too numerous to mention.

                      Showing in HB and Performance require different standards and qualities. Sorry....
                      I am with you on the diversity issue however. Bottom Line... it all comes down to the judge's opinion.
                      ~ Bill Rube ~
                      http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                      Check us out on Facebook

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I'll say I'm one that doesn't like too much white on the face and blues eyes for hunters either. I was raised hearing this was not considered desirable. Welsh breeding doesn't frown on it in their shows and in-hand classes, but many times it's tossed out in hunter breeding or in-hand showing. I've seen it over and over.
                        Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          In this year of 2010 my teacher from Portugal, and is very, very proud of his Lusitanos, in his heart, believes that blue eyes and double dilutes are genetically weak.

                          Funny that there was a cremello or perlino (with *something else* going on that I'm dying to figure out) and an obvious splash--the first Luso I've ever seen--with an almost entire blue eye, and underneath the gray, an obvious slpash blaze.

                          There's a chestnut there that I'd love to know the lineage of--also appears splash. I did not know there was splash in the breed (grey hides so much!) but splash is quite obvious in the Colonial Spanish horses, who genetically are the Iberian breed brought over to the colnies.
                          InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            but blue eyes being a "defect" is such a hold over from old school where those horses were even put down due to being considered "evil"

                            They are not a defect, they should not be judged as a defect, it should not matter if it gives a judge the heebie jeebies. That's my point. It's such a prejudice thing. I mean heck, it used to be that if you had a pinto in the Hunter arena you got the sign of the cross for having a "stock horse"

                            PP - I have discovered that there is a whole line of Splash/Sabinos in the Baroque horses - Paso, Lusi, etc. I found a breeder who is breeding to try to bring that pattern back in full
                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I don't think that there will be prejudice against your foal in hunter breeding with many judges (perhaps with some). So many people who show hunter breeding want as much chrome as possible. Popeye K, Redwine, some of the tobiano stallions' kids have done well on the line. At any rate, the USEF HB rules don't show color prejudice! Yours is a lovely foal!
                              _________________
                              "laurelleafhanoverians.com"

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                JB--Tintagel?

                                I love the story of Augusta...

                                I plan to breed the little medicine hat to Diego next year.

                                I have, somewhere, a link to a very, very baroque black & white minimal Tobi doing a... capriole with some royalty (female) on board. LOFF It.

                                When "too much colour" became a bad thing in Iberians, we lost some of it--but grey covers a LOT of things.

                                I've also always wanted to corrupt me some RID to get a high % RID ISH in spots.

                                Damn colour breeders...
                                InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by dianehalpin View Post
                                  I don't think that there will be prejudice against your foal in hunter breeding with many judges (perhaps with some). So many people who show hunter breeding want as much chrome as possible. Popeye K, Redwine, some of the tobiano stallions' kids have done well on the line. At any rate, the USEF HB rules don't show color prejudice! Yours is a lovely foal!
                                  _________________
                                  "laurelleafhanoverians.com"
                                  I agree ~ it's a nice foal! We are not talking chrome here, nor other horses of color ~ they will always have an uphill battle in my eyes. I know firsthand, and I believe they had better be striking and talented to overcome prejudice's. Chrome is fabulous!

                                  However, aside from all the other tangents, we are talking BLUE eyes. I have never seen a blue-eyed horse do well in HB... sorry. Same with a a club foot or crooked legs. Are they genetic defects, depends on who you talk to.

                                  Performance is a whole other story.
                                  ~ Bill Rube ~
                                  http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                                  Check us out on Facebook

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    That's too bad! I worry more about the lack of pigmentation AROUND the eyes in a bald or bonnet faced horse because sunburn can cause cancers and thickening of the skin around eyes and muzzle especially. I would use a fly mask in turnout during the strong sun months just to shade the eyes. A friend just put her bald-faced paint down due to a tumor over his eye.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      But it's NOT a genetic defect! I'm not sure how anyone can put it in the same category as club feet

                                      If someone wants to say blue eyes are a gentic defect, then they need to get on board with everything that is not bay dun being a genetic defect, because bay dun is the original color of horses. No gray, no pinto patterns, no appy patterns, no black or chestnut. Bay. Dun.

                                      It's just incredibly frustrating to think that blue eyes are judged in the same category as crooked legs.

                                      diane - that's why many folks put a permanent eyeliner around those pink-skinned eyes
                                      ______________________________
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by SilverBalls View Post
                                        You cannot compare blue eyes ( considered to be a defect due to pigmentation ) to the actual color of a horse like palomino, paint etc. You could however do so if they had blue eyes.

                                        I do understand your frustration re: horses of color. Once again that's why they have different venues. Call me "old school", but blue eyes are right up there with other conformation flaws which are too numerous to mention.

                                        Showing in HB and Performance require different standards and qualities. Sorry....
                                        I am with you on the diversity issue however. Bottom Line... it all comes down to the judge's opinion.
                                        It is like the old days when white/light hooves were considered a defect. Light hooves were "softer" then dark hooves. Luckily, Hunter Breeding results don't seem to correspond at all with actual performance results. Great On-the-line doesn't mean Great Over-fences.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by MaximumChrome View Post
                                          It is like the old days when white/light hooves were considered a defect. Light hooves were "softer" then dark hooves. Luckily, Hunter Breeding results don't seem to correspond at all with actual performance results. Great On-the-line doesn't mean Great Over-fences.
                                          Ding ... Ding ... We have a winner! I remember hearing about light/white hooves for years. I guess it's all in the "eyes of the beholder" when you get right down to it! LOL!
                                          ~ Bill Rube ~
                                          http://www.bydesignfarm.com
                                          Check us out on Facebook

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