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ALL Breeders Beware of The SPCA

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  • #21
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2jUYNimDnE
    www.longleafsporthorses.com

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    • #22
      Popcorn anyone?
      Mystic Owl Sporthorses
      www.mysticowlsporthorses.com

      Comment


      • #23
        Tractor Assault In Dutchess

        http://www.933star.com/cc-common/new...rticle=2844902

        Tractor Assault In Dutchess

        Incident happened in Union Vale.
        Friday, October 26, 2007
        A DUTCHESS COUNTY WOMAN WAS ARRESTED FOR ALLEGEDLY USING A TRACTOR TO TRY AND RUN DOWN DUTCHESS SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES AND SPCA OFFICERS. THE OFFICERS HAD A WARRANT TO SEIZE HORSES FROM A LOCATION ON BRUZGAL ROAD IN UNION VALE WEDNESDAY NIGHT WHEN 62 YEAR OLD SANDRA KISTNER ALLEGEDLY BECAME VIOLENT AND USED THE TRACTOR AS A WEAPON. NO ONE WAS INJURED AS THE WOMAN WAS TAKEN INTO CUSTODY. KISTNER WAS CHARGED WITH FIRST DEGREE ASSAULT.



        Copyright © 2003-2007 Clear Channel. All rights reserved.

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        • #24
          In my personal experience...

          I got a nurse mare from Sandy last year. I lost my favorite TB mare 12 hours after she had foaled a fabulous Feuertanzer filly. She came down very quickly with "Bonnie" who was fat and happy. She did a great job getting the foal and the mare acquainted, and was very reassuring to me. I was a mess, having just lost my favorite broodmare, and she made a very difficult situation better. She also helped my worries over Bonnie's "real" foal by telling me how that foal would be going to be adopted by a mare who was still lactating from earlier - apparently that worked out well. I recently received Bonnie's foal by my stallion. She came down with a fairly shaggy coat (fall in NY kind of coat) and was a bit smaller than my weanling that had a "real mother". I was concerned with her pot belly - immediately thought "oh no - worms" - but she came with a deworming record. Then I chatted with my vet, telling him about her. He said, "Oh - is it a little bit small, with a pot belly?" - Um yes, how did you know? Said it was a typical "bucket baby" thing - as they only get fed at certain times, not a speck at a time like a foal on a mare. Said not to worry as both are things she will grow out of. She is a kind, sweet foal. Sandy was great to communicate with and was genuinely concerned with how she adjusted and how I liked her. I know that there are people who disagree with the whole nurse mare concept, and I am sure there are some bad apples out there, but I was happy to do business with Sandy and would do so again. She is genuinely concerned with placing the foals in homes that care for them, and that helped my worries about taking some poor foal's mother. I would buy a foal from her again, or use a nurse mare if I was unlucky enough to need one. I appreciate the fine line that the animal control people have to walk, and wish them the best. I have not been to Sandy's farm, but did want to recount my positive experiences.
          Erika

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          • #25
            spca

            She sure is!! If I knew how to put pictures on this forum I would show her to you. Actually, if you go to the Devon photographer site, the pass word is Devon2007. Johnny's real name coltrane WRF I think they are #165. The horse community never ceases to amaze me.
            Judy
            www.windyridgefarm.com
            Judy

            www.windyridgefarm.com

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            • #26
              Sandy has come "to the rescue" more times than I can count...having had an NI mare, as well as an orphan foal, and other babies that needed donor colostrum...I am indebted to her.

              I have never been to her farm, so I can't speak to the condition of her horses, but to me she seemed like a passionate horseman trying to do the best for babies in need with little or no notice.

              One would have to be passionate to work as hard as she does: getting mares bred, foaling them out en masse, collecting and packaging colostrum, shipping it out last minute in frozen packaging...then schlepping nursemares up and down the east coast for the better part of six months per year. It takes a special person to have that kind of devotion. Cripes, most of us are burned out just getting 3 mares through breeding, foaling, delivery and neonatal care.

              If the threats and/or harassment that Len describes are true, coupled with Sandy's passion (and exaustion that she must live with) I can see why she may have felt she needed to defend herself and her property from what she felt was an invasion. Clearly, jumping on a tractor wasn't the best course of action, especially in the eyes of non-horse people and/or a PETA effort with the "authorities" behind them to shut her down. Sandy herself is a rescuer by the nature of what she does and it sounds like she fought the only way she knew how, as inappropriate as it might seem or be.

              Whether we agree with the nursemare operation or not, many of us are indebted to Sandy for her passion in helping us save our precious foals. Of my crew, Chatterly, Fancy, Willy, Archie are only alive because of what she does and her quick response. When I bred I routinely ordered 2 qts. of colostrum to have "just in case". If I didn't need it I'd let local vets and Morven Park I had a supply. I can't tell you the number of frantic mare owners contacted me at 3 a.m. to pick up colostrum for a foal that would have died without it.

              I can only hope that the truth prevails here.
              www.littlebullrun@aol.com See Little Bull Run's stallions at:
              "Argosy" - YouTube and "Boleem" - YouTube
              Boleem @ 1993 National Dressage Symposium - YouTube

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              • #27
                Great post, SID.
                Roseknoll Sporthorses
                www.roseknoll.net

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                • #28
                  I still don't get it. Tazer, was your colt from Sandy's farm? What's the story there?

                  Sounds like Sandy does provide an excellent service; nonetheless, that doesn't mean she provides excellent care for all her horses including the foals. Hopefully the truth will come out in trial, whatever that may be.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Perhaps those of you who support her could send notes to the judge or her DA? That would probably count for something.

                    Drives me crazy when one week you read here how you can't get someone to care about an animal in distress...and then you hear of cases like this where their efforts are unneeded.
                    "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
                    Touchstone Farm
                    www.bytouchstonefarm.com

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                    • #30
                      Not Sure?

                      Well most people complain that the authorities do not do enough. Has anybody been to sandy's barn? Has enybody seen if her stalls & water buckets are clean and not full of whatever but clean water? That ALL the horses are fat and heathly looking? Well somebody must have to make a complaint. If no one saw it how can they make a complaint and the SPCA go in and do what they did. I feel this should not be talked about on this forum at all. If none of you or I saw what her barn and horses look like how can we defend or put her down. There must be some truth to what is being said. I am sure the SPCA has better things to do then do this if it were not true.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by handilady View Post
                        Well most people complain that the authorities do not do enough. Has anybody been to sandy's barn? Has enybody seen if her stalls & water buckets are clean and not full of whatever but clean water? That ALL the horses are fat and heathly looking? Well somebody must have to make a complaint. If no one saw it how can they make a complaint and the SPCA go in and do what they did. I feel this should not be talked about on this forum at all. If none of you or I saw what her barn and horses look like how can we defend or put her down. There must be some truth to what is being said. I am sure the SPCA has better things to do then do this if it were not true.

                        Don't underestimate the power of a wacky neighbor. I was turned into AC because my horses were standing in mud.
                        I wasn't always a Smurf
                        Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                        "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                        The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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                        • #32
                          Folks, I haven't been on a property where Sandy had horses in about 15 years, so I hope things have changed--everyone has the right to improve over time--but as I mentioned before, there IS a history. Indeed, we should all appreciate the backbreaking, extremely stressful services that folks like Sandy provide...but sometimes we appreciate those things in the same way we appreciate the make-up we wear that was tested on innocent little bunnies, or the hormones we take thanks to mares who have to stand in straight stalls and pee in bags for months of their lives.

                          If you are conscientious, then maybe you SHOULD look behind the scenes to understand exactly how you come to benefit from certain providers. If you do in this circumstance, I truly hope you are pleased with what you find now.

                          And to illustrate, I'll just tell you a small bit: Sandy is an emotional woman--I'm sure she wouldn't be anywhere near as dedicated to what she does if she didn't put her very heart and soul into it, which she truly does. (Oh, what I could tell you about how she has driven through dangerous snowstorms to deliver mares! Over some of the most rugged mountains in the east, too!) That said, though, she once threatened to SHOOT ME if I came onto her property to retrieve my stallion, whom she refused to feed what I provided for him, claiming he was better off thin (the ASPCA got involved in helping me--the police refused to, BTW; the ASPCA said they and many of the locals were in Lenny's pocket. Don't know if that's true, but the police most certainly were VERY rude and singularly unhelpful to me. I spoke with a lawyer who suggested arbitration before filing a formal lawsuit against her (and, folks, you'll find others took the more direct route, if you cared to research this. Our arbiter, BTW, is a lurker here. The result was I got my stallion back without being shot and I feel no ill will toward Sandy. She is what she is--I accept that.) However, as a somewhat sentimental sort myself, I've kept pictures--not just of Teddy (Sr.) while he was there, but of his get who were raised there--and others. Pictures don't lie, folks.

                          So, OK, there's a history, BUT AGAIN I ACKNOWLDGE THAT PEOPLE CAN CHANGE. This is why I tried in this thread to give Sandy the benefit of the doubt here. Alas, for ethical reasons (honestly--how can I stay silent?) I can't resist having posted this time. I do so specifically so that YOU FOLKS realize that sometimes you enjoy services other living beings sacrifice to provide, so don't make assumptions about this situation any more than you do about those cosmetics you put on your faces.
                          Sportponies Unlimited
                          Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

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                          • #33
                            Thank you, PWynn for sharing that with us. I get frustrated when everyone assumes organizations like the ASPCA are always out on witch hunts! Certainly any organization can abuse their power, but not every case is like that. I appreciate hearing from people who have seen this farm first hand, not just someone who had a mare delivered to them. I have no idea who is right/wrong in this case as I don't have first hand knowledge, but it sounds like a lot of the people defending Sandy also don't have first-hand knowledge of what her place is like and how she actually cares for her horses.
                            Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

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                            • #34
                              Well said! Excellent post!

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Don't underestimate the power of a wacky neighbor. I was turned into AC because my horses were standing in mud.
                                I was turned in to the Sheriff's Office for neglect. The sheriff who came out was in stitches laughing at the complaint when she met my horses and dogs. They told her the horses were never fed (I get up early to feed and leave early for work). The sheriff didn't know my hours at the time she first came out, but she could see a round bale feeder full of hay - inside their run-in shed and protected form the elements. She could see all the good grass in the pasture, she could see their water trough and saw them drinking from it. The neighbors then complained that the dogs weren't fed and were neglected and abused. They were all apparently at the fence jumping up and wagging their tails (yuh, right, abused) and she asked which one had been starved because they all looked in pretty good flesh to her. Then the neighbors told her they were neglected and abused because I was away from the house for 12 hours each day to work. The sheriff said, "Then arrest me! I leave my dog home while I'm out of patrol. These dogs look well fed. They're happy and friendly. I can see a water bucket and shelter for them".
                                Don't underestimate the power of a wacky neighbor!!!!!
                                Doesn't always mean there isn't a problem, but sometimes you have to look at where the complaint is coming from. Anyone here ever been turned in for having 'dead horses' in your front pasture? when the horses were sleeping in the sun? Ever been turned in for 'blindfolding' your horses because you put fly masks on them?
                                Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                                Now apparently completely invisible!

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                                • #36
                                  Something I don't understand...

                                  While I have seriously downscaled my horse involvement, I used to run a breeding farm with 40+ horses.

                                  We had horses from sucking to geriatric. Some of the "older" crowd were a little rough looking, which is typical for any older living thing. The younger/middle aged horses were all sleek/fat/gorgeous.
                                  Being on a public road many people would comment about the "skinny/ragged" looking horses.

                                  Let's think about this people...
                                  If 97% of the horses at a farm are looking gorgeous and there are 3% looking a little less than perfect would you call the SPCA? Would you assume those 3% were cared for any less than the 97%? Most of the time those 3% get more care and cost more to keep than the others.
                                  If all of the horses were in bad shape then yes I would be concerned.
                                  I don't know of anyone who would take excellent care of the majority of their horses and let one or two suffer without proper care. It doesn't make sense.

                                  What it's coming down to is we're all going to have to put down horses when they start to show their "age" to keep these clueless animal Nazi's away.
                                  No one is going to want to take in a rescue or hardship case for fear that if someone sees the less than perfect horse with the healthy fat herd they will come to "rescue" all of the horses. It's insane.

                                  It's so sad that the human race has lost the ability to use logic in these situations.

                                  On a side note there was a farm between my place and Sandys that had dairy cattle in a pasture on a main road. In the fall it got muddy in the feed lot (not the whole field). Some "animal lover" with no common sense saw the cattle eating one morning while they were standing in the mud. Oh horrors!!!! That poor farmer was harrassed so badly he stopped using that pasture all together. It's INSANE!!!!!!!!

                                  Keep it up and pretty soon none of us will be able to have horses because there will always be someone who thinks something we do is cruel or abusive.

                                  Sandy knows her way around horses no one can deny that. I can promise you she has more horse experience than the majority on this board. Maybe her standards aren't the same as yours. That doesn't mean her horses need to be "rescued". We all have different standards. Mine are quite high. Many people here know me and my horses and can attest to that.
                                  Even with my high standards I saw NOTHING that concerned me at Sandy's.
                                  Yes Sandy is passionate. Yes she will fight tooth and nail for her cause and her horses. Yes you can say she marches to the beat of a different drummer. That doesn't give anyone here the right to judge her. I have been there. I've been there more than once. I find it very disheartening to read posts from people who don't know Sandy, have never done business with her, and have never been to her place give an opinion on the situation.

                                  Those of you who are judging from what you are reading without seeing for yourself are the reason people like Sandy are being harrassed.

                                  I saw EVERY horse on her farm. EVERY single horse. I touched them all. I was there more than once.

                                  Some people just don't have enough to do I guess. I'm far too busy with life to worry about horses that I know are well taken care of.
                                  M

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                                  • #37
                                    [QUOTE=CHS;2776846] I have been there. I've been there more than once. I find it very disheartening to read posts from people who don't know Sandy, have never done business with her, and have never been to her place give an opinion on the situation.
                                    QUOTE]


                                    So, are you saying that the post from pwynnnorman is made up? She said she was threatened WITH BEING SHOT when she went to retrieve HER OWN STALLION! I don't know, that seems a little out of line to me. Like I said, we will just have to see how this plays out, but there sure are a lot of conflicting details coming out which makes we wonder if there isn't something a little 'off ' going on here.
                                    I refuse to let all animal welfare investigators/organizations be painted with a broad brush as the bad guys. It just isn't true.
                                    Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
                                    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

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                                    • #38
                                      Press Release

                                      Another google search led to the discovery of this press release...
                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      http://www.newenglandequinerescues.c...sbadpeople.htm


                                      For Immediate Release

                                      August 8, 2007

                                      Contact: Chief Uhlmann

                                      Humane Law Enforcement, Dutchess County SPCA

                                      (845) 452-7722 Ext. 3; duhlmann@co.dutchess.ny.us



                                      Unionvale horse owner arraigned on animal cruelty charges

                                      HYDE PARK, NY – A Town of Poughkeepsie resident, Sandra J. Kistner, was arraigned in Unionvale court today on charges filed by the Dutchess County SPCA’s Humane Law Enforcement Division. Kistner was charged with four counts of Failure to Provide Proper Sustenance to an Animal, all misdemeanors.

                                      Chief Uhlmann of the DCSPCA responded to a complaint of horses being inadequately cared for on a horse farm in Unionvale. As a result of the investigation a search and seizure warrant was obtained. Veterinarians who specialize in equine health were consulted to evaluate the overall health of the horses and the conditions in which they were living. Four horses were removed from the property and were transported to animal rehabilitation centers where they are being cared for.

                                      Joyce Garrity, Executive Director of the DCSPCA, stated "The Dutchess County SPCA Humane Law Enforcement team is working very hard to protect the horses in this case. We are appreciative of the help provided by volunteers, the Dutchess County Sheriff’s Office, the NYS Police and the Dutchess County District Attorney’s Office."

                                      The Defendant was arrested today by NYS Police on the four counts of animal cruelty. The investigation is still ongoing.

                                      If you have questions or concerns regarding possible animal cruelty or neglect, contact the DCSPCA Law Enforcement Division at (845) 452-7722 ext. 3.

                                      The Dutchess County SPCA, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit, is the lead agency for animal rescue and adoption in Dutchess County. The DCSPCA is a no-kill shelter with a 136-year history of concern, caring and providing shelter for unwanted, abused, abandoned and neglected animals. Central to the mission of the DCSPCA is the securing of caring, responsible, permanent homes for the adoptable animals in its care.

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                                      • #39
                                        [QUOTE= I do so specifically so that YOU FOLKS realize that sometimes you enjoy services other living beings sacrifice to provide, so don't make assumptions about this situation any more than you do about those cosmetics you put on your faces.[/QUOTE] or the meat in your fridge ...

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Tiki

                                          Originally posted by Tiki View Post
                                          I was turned in to the Sheriff's Office for neglect. The sheriff who came out was in stitches laughing at the complaint when she met my horses and dogs.
                                          Tiki - I am glad to hear you have had experience with a cruelty complaint. Fortunately the complaint being investigated in your situation was unfounded (I imagine that happens alot these days, especially with more city people moving to the country).

                                          I just cannot understand why enforcement would pursue this case, if there was not a legitimate concern.

                                          Who on this forum said they have seen every horse on Sandy's farm? How long ago was that visit, and at what location?

                                          I found an article online that says these horses were evicted from Warwick, NY.

                                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          http://archive.recordonline.com/arch...1/18/brf90.htm

                                          January 18, 2004

                                          Warwick
                                          Horses die at Warwick breeding farm

                                          At least three horses belonging to a nurse mare breeder have died at a Warwick Farm due to as yet unidentified medical complications, police said yesterday.

                                          The breeder, Sandy Kistner, was evicted from the farm on Blooms Corner Road, where she was a tenant, earlier this month. The 80 or so horses on the property were being looked after by caretakers appointed by the landlord. Kistner is in the process of moving the animals to a farm in Dutchess County.

                                          State police Investigator Ron Colgan said officials are investigating the deaths, which took place in the past two weeks, but the circumstances did not seem suspicious.

                                          "If there's something of a criminal nature, like negligence, we will take action," Colgan said. Two veterinarians have examined the animals and determined they were well cared for, he said.

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