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Yanking out the afterbirth ...

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    Yanking out the afterbirth ...

    Local first time breeder called me this morning as they heard I "bred horses"

    Seems that their maiden mare foaled last night and while the woman was busy the husband grabbed the afterbirth and yanked it out and stuck it in a bucket

    Yikes!

    They said the mare was "very cold" as she was shaking - I told her she was probably shock-y with the cramps and contractions and yanking the afterbirth out the way he did wasnt going to help matters either ...

    They have been trying to get hold of their vet but havent received a callback yet. I am going to head over shortly but I am also loathe to "play vet" to someone I dont even know let alone administer any medications like oxytocin and/or Banamine to this mare even though based on the circumstances thats probably exactly what she needs ...

    If the afterbirth is yanked out before its ready to come out, I am assuming that bits that are still adhering can be left behind and/or you are going to run the risk of causing scarring where it was still stuck and you yanked it off

    Any brilliant suggestion as to what assistance I can offer here without opening myself up to possible liability while keeping the welfare of this poor mare front and center???

    Has anyone been faced with having the afterbirth being yanked out in this manner and what treatments / prognosis was there as a result? Knowing the vet they use, I also dont hold out much hope this vet is going to be very proactive or helpful either...
    www.TrueColoursFarm.com
    www.truecoloursproducts.com

    True Colours Farm on Facebook

    #2
    .. or they tore the uterus and the mare is bleeding to death internally......
    Anne
    -------
    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

    Comment


      #3
      Or she'll develop metritis and subsequent laminitis from the bits of placenta left behind...
      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

      Comment

        Original Poster

        #4
        So what can I do as a "helpful" 3rd party if the vet doesnt get back to them today? Anything?

        I already told her when she called if there were any bits left behind the mare will founder but if their vet doesnt respond and/or come out - again - what can *I* do? Anything?

        Other than tell them to stick her feet in ice cold water between now and tomorrow when the vet does come out?

        I'll lay out the afterbirth and look at it but if it is determined there are pieces missing short of telling them to call my vet instead and hope he can come out to a new client I am not sure what else I *should* do???
        www.TrueColoursFarm.com
        www.truecoloursproducts.com

        True Colours Farm on Facebook

        Comment


          #5
          Some people should just not be allowed to breed! That could cause the mare's death. I would not get too much involved and have them make an emergency call to their vet. Some people do not appreciate help and turn against you when it is not going to their liking and you had the best in mind.
          Gwendolyn
          http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
          Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians

          Comment


            #6
            Call your vet. Hopefully they still have the placenta so the Vet can examine what was left behind!

            Comment


              #7
              Make it clear to them that if they do not get a vet immediately the mare will most likely die and could very well with assistance. About the only thing I would help them with is making sure the baby got its colostrum and maybe get them set up with milk replacement. Anything else could land you in a big pile of trouble. That poor mare.

              Comment


                #8
                Omg! Donna! I hope she's ok! Good luck with whatever you can do for that poor girl. And Im sorry you got put in that sticky situation, but lucky for the mare in a sense that you are there to help her. I guess things like ice for her feet won't hurt and the meds would help too, but Im REALLY wondering where their vet is?! I'd be beating down doors if I were them!

                Good luck!!!
                "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
                A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!

                Comment

                  Original Poster

                  #9
                  They do have it. Its in a bucket. I think I am going to head over now and wait and finish my stalls when I get back

                  Ugh. They also wanted to turn them both out today so the mare could run around and get rid of everything inside. Great plan in theory, except it is about 30F here now with brutal winds, sleet / hail stuff falling periodically and for a just born foal with no blanket and no fat stores, I dont think today is the most optimal day to look at turning them out

                  I explained that my month old foal has been out with a blanket the last couple of days and if any of my foals had just been born, there is "0" chance any of them would be outside today ...

                  The other problem is this is a "farming" community and horses are "livestock". I have been told countless times I am "too fussy. They are JUST horses". They and the vet tend to look at them as livestock and lump them into the same category as sheep, goats and cattle ...
                  www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                  www.truecoloursproducts.com

                  True Colours Farm on Facebook

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Somehow these are the kind of people whose horse will be FINE!! It's the rest of us, who try to do everything right, that seem to get the bad luck!
                    If there is any way they would get your vet out, that would probably be best. Perhaps when you see her and can assess the situation (temp, comfort, placenta, etc.) you'll feel better. As others have said, be careful and good luck!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by TrueColours View Post
                      I am going to head over shortly but I am also loathe to "play vet" to someone I dont even know let alone administer any medications like oxytocin and/or Banamine to this mare even though based on the circumstances thats probably exactly what she needs ...



                      Any brilliant suggestion as to what assistance I can offer here without opening myself up to possible liability while keeping the welfare of this poor mare front and center???
                      Honestly, you are best to stay away and let them find a vet to come out. Administering ANY type of medication or medical treatment/advice opens you up to liability. ...and especially with it being people you don't even know, you have no idea what their recourse reaction might be if all falls apart. If the husband is dumb enough to yank the afterbirth out, they are likely dumb enough to sue someone they asked to help out.
                      www.DaventryEquestrian.com
                      Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
                      Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
                      www.EquineAppraisers.com

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by not again View Post
                        .. or they tore the uterus and the mare is bleeding to death internally......
                        This. I would either get a vet immediately, or load her up and take her to a hospital.

                        If she is hemorrhaging, they need to keep her still, not running around. they won't see the blood, as it will pool inside of her.

                        If she has retained part of her placenta, here is an article. http://www.wwvc.net/ern/archives/ern...featurearticle

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Wow, I feel really bad for that mare. As others have said, don't open yourself up to getting sued. I would suggest them finding another vet ASAP or taking her to a hospital. Administering drugs to someone elses horse is never a good idea. The ice water would be ok, or just have them wrap her feet with styrofoam pads. She needs to have her temp taken too. Hope it all works out.
                          Holland Brook Sporthorses
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                          Comment


                            #14
                            Stupid husband. Stupid, stupid people.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Daventry View Post
                              Honestly, you are best to stay away and let them find a vet to come out. Administering ANY type of medication or medical treatment/advice opens you up to liability. ...and especially with it being people you don't even know, you have no idea what their recourse reaction might be if all falls apart. If the husband is dumb enough to yank the afterbirth out, they are likely dumb enough to sue someone they asked to help out.
                              This. I know we all want to help but sometimes you can't mop up other people's messes.

                              Terri
                              COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                              "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by TrueColours View Post


                                The other problem is this is a "farming" community and horses are "livestock". I have been told countless times I am "too fussy. They are JUST horses". They and the vet tend to look at them as livestock and lump them into the same category as sheep, goats and cattle ...
                                Decent livestock owners (sheep, goats, cattle) know better than to yank on a placenta.
                                It damages the caruncles.
                                "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by kealea31 View Post
                                  Wow, I feel really bad for that mare. As others have said, don't open yourself up to getting sued. I would suggest them finding another vet ASAP or taking her to a hospital. Administering drugs to someone elses horse is never a good idea. The ice water would be ok, or just have them wrap her feet with styrofoam pads. She needs to have her temp taken too. Hope it all works out.
                                  We are in Canada, it is not as easy or common to sue. The courts are more sympathetic to people trying to help.
                                  I have little patients with peoples feelings as opposed to the care of their animals. I would simply tell them they are putting their horse at great risk by not having a vet out. That to have a "good" vet come out and do it right the first time will reduce the amount of money that will be spent and suggest that they give your vet a call ASAP.
                                  I find that if people are asking my opinion on the subject it is because they must somewhat respect it. So by giving them an answer that shows the gravity of the situation and in a tone that is non-apologetic, it will help them to see that they need to take responsibility. You could also say that if it were your own horse you would not try to self-vet but have the vet out.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Take a blanket for the mare but don't fasten the leg straps or surcingles. Banamine isn't a real good idea unless she has passed all the placenta. Check her digital pulse capillary refill (assuming her gums are pink and she's not bleeding internally)and temperature and grovel and beg on the phone to the vet.

                                    Poor mare and baby
                                    “There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women." And more so for women who try to control other women's choices

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by TrueColours View Post

                                      The other problem is this is a "farming" community and horses are "livestock". I have been told countless times I am "too fussy. They are JUST horses". They and the vet tend to look at them as livestock and lump them into the same category as sheep, goats and cattle ...
                                      I can't imagine that it's common practice to pull the placenta out of ANYTHING...cow, ewe, mare, HUMAN

                                      Makes my stomach turn, and I am praying and jingling for the mare/foal & the protection of TrueColours...
                                      http://www.selahwaysporthorses.com/

                                      Comment

                                        Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Thanks fully I brought my thermometer over as they didnt have one

                                        Mare's temperature is well within normal ranges but if she foaled early this morning and there is something retained, would the temperature normally be higher 10-11 hours later already???

                                        She is bright and baby is nursing well. She pass some manure while I was there and a bunch of blood coloured discharge also came out vaginally but hard to say if that "meant" anything or if she was just cleaning herself out

                                        laid out the afterbirth. Very evident where the foal came out, but there is also a large tear in the other horn (like maybe 8-9 inches long?) and also one quarter sized tear in the body of the placenta in an "L" shape and then several little tears about the size of 1/4 of your baby fingernail??? I couldnt tell just by looking at all of these tears if everything that was supposed to be attached - was - so when asked if it could wait until the vet came tomorrow I said IMO no. She had to get a vet out today. Her vet still hadnt called back, she was going to try him again and I also gave her the name and number of my vet and she said she was giving her vet 30 minutes to get back to her and if he didnt, she was going to get my vet out there. Thank God ...

                                        The mare had no digital pulse so for the time being, she looks okay so far

                                        She also said she'd call and update me once the vet had come out

                                        So cross your fingers that all is okay and there arent a whack of large and small particles still inside ...

                                        Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice!
                                        www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                        www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                        True Colours Farm on Facebook

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