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Alright color experts...

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  • Alright color experts...

    Yes, I've asked questions about this little filly before and I'm sorry! I'm just too curious...this is my 2nd raised-from-weanling and I have SO enjoyed this process but don't know how you breeders do it...sooo stressful. I adore this little girl.

    Anyway, my yearling had a vet appt today and I commented on how dark her dorsal stripe was. As the vet was administering shots I noticed something bizarre on her chest...STRIPES? Very faint but very much there. At first I thought it was a shadow or sweat but neither. I'll have to get pictures. My vet casually mentioned "You know, she might be a grulla, taht would explain her dark head." But I thought a grulla was a black with a creme gene? If thats the case, its not possible.

    Just to add her head is VERY dark and a solid color, almost black-- no 'mealy' muzzle. Legs are also very dark but not black, a dark brown.

    Anyone who likes genetics (and who isn't tired of helping me with this problem) take a gander. She was identified as liver chestnut when I bought her but she is obviously not that.

    One month:

    Three months:

    Six months:

    One month ago:


    She's such a butterball...thats why the vet came out :P Had a fecal done and started a powerpack, I don't like the look of that belly and that dried out hair.

    And, inexplicably, her parents:
    Sire: Mosaic by State of the Art out of Frances by Eastern Ruler

    Belgian x TB cross dam.

    Sorry for the picture overload

  • #2
    I think she's still liver chestnut - the stripes are likely countershading (pretty common in young horses especially, but can happen with any). I think she's a funky color right now for just the reasons you are worried about (being a little wormy can really throw off the quality and color of their coat).

    Grulla is black with a *dun* gene, not a creme gene, and regardless, provided the genetics here are correct, not possible with her breeding. Sire is very obviously a bay tobiano (so can only contribute black, agouti, tobiano, and obviously chestnut, since she is one). Dam is also very obviously a chestnut so can contribute that.

    Had I not known her parentage, the color of her ears would have made me consider smoky black, but I would certainly err on the side of worms or some deficiency (might have your vet run a CBC also)...


    • Original Poster

      Yeah I'm waiting on the CBC results as well as the fecal, should be early next week. She said it looked like roundworms to her-- because she was imported from Canada she might have not developed immunity yet. Hoping the powerpack/clovite/some oil helps clean her up. Actually cancelled her inspection on the 2nd she looks so yucky. I'm REALLY trying hard to avoid the Strongid--here in the southeast our worm problem is awful. The vet said they were going to consider recommending fecals instead of 6 week worming and end up NOT worming horses unless they have to because of resistance. Yuck.


      • #4
        I agree, she's a dark liver chestnut. The only options given the colors of her parents are black, bay, or chestnut.


        • Original Poster

          Really you think so? Thanks so much on both of your input by the way, I really appreciate it. I board at a barn full of (lovely) predominantly western quarter horses and paints....not a lot of people to talk genetics with haha. I figured there was no way she could be liver because of her dark mane. I'd secretly love for her to finish that way as thats my favorite color. Whatever's affecting her nutrition hit her hard and fast..vet had been out 6 weeks before and commented she was as "soft and silky as a golden retriever." Not now with this brittle yucky coat...


          • #6
            Here's a couple other dark liver chestnuts with similar coloration:



            • #7
              IMO I COMPLETELY disagree with liver chestnut.

              Shes fading black or fading brown. That horse is NOT in ANY way a red base. I will even pitch in money towards an Extension test I am so confident this horse is NOT red based.
              Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!


              • #8
                I think she's bay.
                Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
                  IMO I COMPLETELY disagree with liver chestnut.

                  Shes fading black or fading brown. That horse is NOT in ANY way a red base. I will even pitch in money towards an Extension test I am so confident this horse is NOT red based.
                  Aren't you the same person that thinks just about any white marking is splash? Color me doubtful!


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dazednconfused View Post
                    Aren't you the same person that thinks just about any white marking is splash? Color me doubtful!
                    Nope. Not at all.

                    But, if you are so confident that this horse is chestnut, you are welcome to split the Extension test cost with me.
                    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!


                    • #11
                      In the baby foal pic, where Mum is lying down, check out Mum's hind end...

                      Is it possible Mum is red dun? Or is that just countershading?

                      I don't knwo enough about Belgians and Haffies... but are they *just* red with flaxen, or is there something a little different-the way Fjords are slightly different than say, QH Duns?

                      I dunno what she is, but I LOFF her. She's gorgeous.

                      I also ADORE the pic with the two ponies/minis, and covet the taffy tobi.
                      InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs

                      Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)


                      • #12
                        I vote liver chestnut as well. I know her mane and tail are really dark but her legs don't look black to me. Especially in her 1 month old picture. To me that's the deciding factor. I can see why they said Grulla though, Grullas can look somewhere inbetween a liver chestnut and a black horse.

                        I bet when her coat first grows in it looks really dark but as the season progresses she fades to a more identifiable liver chestnut. Whatever colour it is I bet she'll look really nice when she's in a bit better condition, once you get rid of the worms.


                        • Original Poster

                          ! Thanks for all the replies, I guess you can see why I've asked this question twice...she's a confusing one. The only way to solve this is a test at UC Davis...I'll pluck out some hairs this week and send them off haha. And thanks for the compliment, she is a cutie, I truly hate that her coat has turned so cruddy in the past few weeks....I put a lot of elbow grease into her. She's gonna be a BIG lady, she'll be 1 on the 14th and she's 15.2 behind

                          Those pictures of the livers make a lot of sense, and i'll be quite lucky if she looks half as nice as those pretties!

                          And if you want that tobi I'll be HAPPY to mail him to you...what a little snot XD He worked for our local zoo here until he kept tossing kids off during pony rides...


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by back in the saddle View Post
                            I think she's bay.
                            I think she is bay as well.......like the other poster I do not believe she is a liver chestnut as she appears to have black mane and tail.



                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
                              Nope. Not at all.

                              But, if you are so confident that this horse is chestnut, you are welcome to split the Extension test cost with me.
                              Why would I pay for that? Not my horse and not that important to me.


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
                                IMO I COMPLETELY disagree with liver chestnut.

                                Shes fading black or fading brown. That horse is NOT in ANY way a red base. I will even pitch in money towards an Extension test I am so confident this horse is NOT red based.
                                Oh gosh, TOTALLY agree! There is no way that horse is red-based. In the earliest picture I was on the fence about black or seal brown, but I'm pretty confident, based on later pictures, it's the latter.

                                That's great that you're sending hairs to be tested All you really have to do is test Extension to settle the debate of red- vs black-based. I think it's very obvious it's dark brown, but if you really want to know for sure, then send another set of hairs to PetDNA to have the Agouti test done (that's the only place that tests for brown, and as of a while ago they ONLY test for brown, so you can't get extension tested there )
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


                                • #17
                                  I agree with JB AWESOME that you are testing. Please remember to share his results with us when you get them. I am very curious if he is black or brown.
                                  Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!


                                  • #18
                                    There's a youngster at my barn (4yo) with that dark mane who is a liver chestnut...
                                    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."


                                    • #19
                                      FWIW my opinion that this horse is black based has absolutely nothing to do with his mane and tail being dark.
                                      Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!


                                      • #20
                                        When she was born, were her legs tan, or tan with a silvery shine to them, or silver? If they had any silvery tone, then I vote black based (bay)
                                        "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

                                        "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x