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SHN Payback Participants - IRS Status has changed Update page 7

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  • #21
    Well, I am new to it this year. Recommended by Alexis Starer as she thought my little TB stallion would be a nice cross for some of the Arabians out there. His first crop are 3 yr olds and will be hitting the show ring this summer. Anyhow, I am only interested in Peggy running the program as she is who was recommended. I want my stallion removed from the FL list. it is a shame such a good organization has been harmed by this crap and hoping it can get resolved as I have talked to many people very happy with the past results.

    Good luck Peggy. I support you.
    www.hilltopfarmva.com

    Facebook: Hilltop Farm VA

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by pegasus44 View Post
      Over my dead body will there be one penny spent on legal fees.

      The law is very clear. Both the Sec. of State in MD and the Atty Gen'l in FL are investigating Laura's attempt to transfer anything from the non-profit MD corp to the new FL corp. They have both used words such as "fraud," "misrepresentation," and "felony."

      This program ran like a top for two years and had a great future. What a shame for all of our supporters :-(

      Peggy
      I am sure hubby would help as a volunteer (law services) since he too supports all that you have done to make the program so great. I am so sorry that you are going through this mess.
      www.lazyjsporthorses.com

      Comment


      • #23
        Perhaps I am a bit Pollyanna-ish here, but I have to believe that this program will prevail.

        It was a brilliant idea and was extremely well-executed by Peggy. I prefer to see this as a glitch -- a rather ugly one at that -- but I do not think it is insurmountable.

        Once this side-show gets resolved, I have every confidence that Peggy will have the program running smoothly again in short order. And in fact, I would venture to guess that it will be better than ever.
        Cold Spring Farm
        German and Arabian-related GOV sporthorses

        https://www.facebook.com/groups/426884770673419/

        Comment


        • #24
          I thought it was kinda hinky to have someone who stands to benefit from the program be an administrator. I liked the fact that supposedly Ms. Prine-Carr had recused herself from activities with/for the BOD (well, at least in the beginning of the ABN thread, according to Laura) since she actively shows Arab SH.

          I liked the fact that Peggy was familiar with Arabians but no longer showed (I'm sad that she is unable to show but pleased that she remains involved with the breed as a whole) so she had no real COI.

          I wouldn't have a problem with say, Doug Stewart or Christy Defoe-Stewart (did I spell that right?) being on the BOD because they are very active in Arabian and HA showing but do not currently show sporthorse (I could be wrong-tried to pick random trainer I see in mags/at Nationals-I'm not in their region) so they have no COI.

          I think that the classes that are paid out should start with "the basics" like: *SHIH mares, stallions/geldings of x age group and up*
          *SHSH*
          *HOF xyz height*
          *Dressage xyz level and up*
          *Jumper xyz height*

          Then as we want to add more classes should the money become available, it should be voted on by members OF THE COMMUNITY. Have a big meeting at SHN and say "the following classes have payouts requested for NEXT show season, we can afford to payout to N number of classes, so vote for your N favorites" and have the results tabulated by an accounting firm. Let the people pick. Let the stallion owners vote by mail. Let the people who have purchased breedings vote as well.

          I'm sure Peggy made mistakes. But the difference is she has posted all the financials online and answered many questions on the ABN and here regarding specifics.

          Laura, on the other hand, has behaved like a politician. She reposts the same spin every time, then says "I've answered questions"
          Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
          Sam: A job? Does it pay?
          Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
          Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by ljshorses View Post
            I think the main problem here is that the program grew very big very fast. As Peggy was trying to set up paypal and correct credit card usage issues as well as make sure all was legally registered, some BOD members got nervous and jumped before looking. I think if they were to organize and work together none of this would of happened. I think that this was a fear reaction and lack of communication. If I ever support this program again I would really like to see one website and members working together not attacking each other. The "takeover" in my opinion was unprofessional and detrimental to the program as a whole.
            I don't know where you are getting this, but there were no credit card issues, or problems setting up PayPal or with legally registering anything. She had the PayPal account all to herself for 2 years. It was set up and established. When we asked for the access to the account for our own organization, she refused. It is very easy to have a "multiple users" PayPal account, but Peggy wouldn't hear of it. She didn't want anyone seeing the transactions but herself. Even after the BOD opened a new PayPal account that was accessible to everyone on the BOD, she refused to put it on the website or to utilize it.

            That other website is completely not authorized. It is not run by the BOD, and it is not related to SHN Payback. Peggy going off on her own and opening a website and trying to claim that it is SHN Payback is just plain nuts. It is another example of her doing whatever she wants, regardless of the decisions of the Board of Directors and for what is in the best interests of the program. Just like her going all over the Internet whining about her being released from the BOD.
            The Inverted Y
            Thoroughbred and Anglo Arabian Sporthorses
            2005 and 2007 USEF Breeder of the Year.
            www.allanglos.net

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Grataan View Post
              I read the entire thread on ABN and I find it extremely interesting that Laura has the time to come and post HERE but refuses to answer stallion owners' questions THERE on a thread SHE STARTED HERSELF.

              LOL.

              I'm so glad I didn't enroll Treasure when he qualified.
              First off, if you have questions, then ask us the questions using the email address we provided. As I have said before, that web forum is very difficult to load and the server here overeas bogs down and stops while trying.

              If peope have questions on that other forum, they need to ASK US by writing us and not assuming we have read them there, as we have not. It is not a matter of "refusing" but a matter of the proper way to ask someone a question.

              Why you think it is "interesting" is beyond me.
              The Inverted Y
              Thoroughbred and Anglo Arabian Sporthorses
              2005 and 2007 USEF Breeder of the Year.
              www.allanglos.net

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                Where is the money now from the sold breedings for 2010?

                I guess at this point is will all be gone to legal fees, and the winner will just be whoever has control of the money to pay for them.

                Sad.
                The money from the sold breedings is where it is supposed to be per the organizations Bylaws, minus the funds Peggy has not returned to us.
                The Inverted Y
                Thoroughbred and Anglo Arabian Sporthorses
                2005 and 2007 USEF Breeder of the Year.
                www.allanglos.net

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                  Just like her going all over the Internet whining about her being released from the BOD.
                  I thought you said she resigned? So which is it, she was released, or she resigned?

                  WHAT BOD? The BOD was Peggy and Laura. So she voted herself off the island?

                  Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                  If peope have questions on that other forum, they need to ASK US by writing us and not assuming we have read them there, as we have not.
                  No possible way you are not following that dicsussion. I sure would be, even if it took 10 minutes to load a page, or I had to borrow someone's iphone, etc.

                  Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                  The money from the sold breedings is where it is supposed to be per the organizations Bylaws.
                  So it is with the MD registered non-profit?

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Why don't the two of you allow us to see all of the facts, minutes, documents, etc. Post them, and the order that each of you think things happened, emails, dates, etc. Prepare, and lay out your full case. Let the SO and breeders here be the court of who is right and wronged.

                    The way things are, the program will be destroyed, because if this continues to be a huge fight, courts brought into it, etc, no one will support any of it.

                    The exception will be if it is found that someone has committed fraud, etc. Then the other party will get the support.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Very well put Darlyn, right now it's all heresay and no one knows the "actual" truth. I know the program was run by Peggy for 2 years without issue so I am naturally going to wonder why now there is a problem. I know Peggy and I find the accusations of her doing anything wrong unsettling. She has always been professional and quick to answer all questions. I don't know Laura but that doesn't mean she isn't a reputable person as well. For all WE (breeders,stallion owners) know this is a cat fight that went to cyberspace. If the minutes etc.. were posted as Darlyn suggested then we can all decide since we are all apart of this organization. There should be no reason that meeting minutes should not be published to members, ever. That's when suspicion and innuendo occurs.
                      www.lazyjsporthorses.com

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Half truths and untruths are really becoming a habit with you, aren't they Laura Wood?

                        As anyone with a Paypal account knows, there is a limit to the amount you can withdraw per month UNLESS you give them a Social Security number to link to it, even if it is a business account. I gave them mine. When I requested they change it, they said the account would have to be closed and a new one opened. There was NO WAY I was giving Laura access when they told me that! So, credit cards had to be put on hold until Laura set up a new account. Takes 3 days max.

                        And no, I wasn't going to reprogram 300+ BUY NOW buttons for you, Laura. That's all yours. It would have taken me days.

                        When Laura started the new Florida corp, she posted those by-laws etc on the Payback site as though that was the true non-profit. It is not. It has no status with the IRS and cannot utilize the current Payback one.

                        She NEVER contacted the stallion owners of a new corporation selling their breedings. She never asked their permission to do so. This was not the program they signed up for at all. (Laura even changed the 100% Payout structure by taking a percentage for admin fees, without disclosing it.)

                        So I restored the original website to ensure the entities remain separate. Most all of the stallion owners have supported this. I am still a Director of the MD corp.

                        I did confirm with the bank today that the funds are still where they belong. I will post an accounting of the assets later today.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by stripes View Post
                          Laura - show us where the BOD of the MD based program voted Peggy off and dissolved the Non Profit. Show us the minutes. Fact is that you started a whole new & separate enitity in Fl. and took the stallion list with you. There was NO BOD even in place to have a vote to vote anyone off. Isn't that how most of this started? Peggy wanted a 5 member BOD and you didn't - I believe you said too many people will not agree. From your actions, I'm guessing you didn't want anyone to disagree with you. As it stands now, your new program has a BOD which 2 of the 3 stand to profit from this program which is a HUGE COI and one that stallion owners should know about. By choosing classes that you know you will showing in is ethically wrong. Your new program will never be legal until you deal with the original and only valid Payback program in MD. Stallion owners needed to be contacted before you did anything! Now their stallions are not only listed with the MD payback where the have legal contracts, but also listed with your Fl. without any contract. You need to stop hiding behind this ridiculous idea of a BOD and step up and start providing proof of your accusations and answering the questions of the people who have a vested interest in Payback.
                          Odd how just because Peggy says something, you take it as fact. How about asking Peggy to show where the BOD authorized her new website? How about asking Peggy for the minutes that authorized her to remove $18,700 from the organizations bank account and put in her private account? How about asking Peggy for the minutes where the BOD suthorized her to open bank accounts in only her name? But wait, how can there be any minutes if the BOD doesn't exist? How can you say you want to see minutes when in the next breath you say there is no BOD? Seems your sword is double edged.

                          Here are the facts: The board of directors voted Peggy off the BOD on 1 Feb and notified her in writing of this decision. She had known since December that we were considering this due to her recent decisions and she knew the vote was in Feb. No big surprise.

                          I have no idea why you think there was no BOD. There absolutely was and is a BOD. If you look at our Charter in MD, it says in the seventh article that there are THREE directors. Just before this, Peggy distributed a Press Release that lists Patience as a co-director. If Patience wasn't a director, why would Peggy tell the world two years ago that she was? Its just too convenient now, when we vote her off, that she tries to claim there was no BOD. Further, if you read our weekly email blasts, the first paragraph was signed by me as a "director". Why would Peggy say there is no BOD, when every week she would send out a newsletter with me as a director?

                          So, how did we decide on a BOD of three? Peggy and I discussed it and WE decided it would be the best, as WE wanted to simplify our organization. Peggy only brought up possibly adding more directors AFTER she learned that she may be voted off. It was her attempt to save her neck. It had nothing to do with the health of the organization. Adding more directors was not the issue. The issue was Peggy.

                          How can you possibly say there is a COI? We have a very nice cross section of classes that are selected by the BOD, including Peggy when she was on the board. Saying there is a COI is like saying all the Sweepstakes commissioners have a COI because they show in Sweepstakes classes. And for your information, Peggy also stands to win prize money, as the get of her stallion are eligible to win prize money, making her stallion eligible to win cash awards, as well as increases the value of her stallion's get and brings in breedings to her stallion. If I wanted to design this program to benefit me, I would have had all the payout in amateur classes, but you will notice every class pays the open divisions, not amateur. Have you looked at the class list? I don't show in driving or dressage, or jumpers, or the In-Hand classes. This list was designed to encourage the MAXIMUM participation, and the huge majority of classes I don't even show in, and Patience only shows in one of them, GP dressage!

                          Where in heavens name do you think we dissolved our incorporation in MD? That is simply not true in any sense. The only reason we registered in FL was to protect our organization until we could secure a replacement resident agent for our MD registration. Peggy is using this as a "weapon" to fool everyone into thinking we are now a new organization. Not even close to reality. We have since found a new MD resident agent, a law firm in MD. There is absolutely nothing "illegal" in what we did to protect Payback.
                          The Inverted Y
                          Thoroughbred and Anglo Arabian Sporthorses
                          2005 and 2007 USEF Breeder of the Year.
                          www.allanglos.net

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by pegasus44 View Post
                            Over my dead body will there be one penny spent on legal fees.

                            The law is very clear. Both the Sec. of State in MD and the Atty Gen'l in FL are investigating Laura's attempt to transfer anything from the non-profit MD corp to the new FL corp. They have both used words such as "fraud," "misrepresentation," and "felony."

                            This program ran like a top for two years and had a great future. What a shame for all of our supporters :-(

                            Peggy
                            Oh puleeze! What a crock!
                            The Inverted Y
                            Thoroughbred and Anglo Arabian Sporthorses
                            2005 and 2007 USEF Breeder of the Year.
                            www.allanglos.net

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              What's the name of the law firm in Md?
                              What's the corporation number of the non-profit in Fl?
                              What's the corporation number of the non-profit in MD?
                              Where are the minutes posted on the decision to remove one of the directors?
                              What proof is there that Peggy committed fraud or took money etc.. and if she had done this why was she not charged? Isn't that illegal?
                              Who all was allowed to vote when the decision was made on whether to keep or not keep Peggy? Shouldn't members be allowed to vote on what directors they want?
                              What fees are paid to what adminstrators?
                              What is the balance in the Fl account?
                              What is the balance in the Md account?
                              Is Patience aware of all of this and if so what is her opinion?
                              What stallion owners recently pulled out and why?
                              Why if things ran smoothly for 2 years would the very person responsible for the program be voted off?

                              I think if the above questions and maybe some more were answered, then WE could all decide for ourselves.
                              www.lazyjsporthorses.com

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                                Odd how just because Peggy says something, you take it as fact. How about asking Peggy to show where the BOD authorized her new website? How about asking Peggy for the minutes that authorized her to remove $18,700 from the organizations bank account and put in her private account? How about asking Peggy for the minutes where the BOD suthorized her to open bank accounts in only her name? But wait, how can there be any minutes if the BOD doesn't exist? How can you say you want to see minutes when in the next breath you say there is no BOD? Seems your sword is double edged.
                                Laura - show us the minutes. Where's the proof that any BOD did anything? This question has been put to you many mnay times. As far as we know there has never been a formal BOD or any By Laws adopted for the original MD Payback. Prove otherwise.

                                Here are the facts: The board of directors voted Peggy off the BOD on 1 Feb and notified her in writing of this decision. She had known since December that we were considering this due to her recent decisions and she knew the vote was in Feb. No big surprise.
                                Interesting that this happened in Feb., since you started a NEW Payback in Fl. in Jan. without notifiying anybody. And again, where are the minutes. You yourself posted back in Jan. on the thread you say you don't follow that the BOD voted her off in Jan. Agian, where are the minutes?

                                I have no idea why you think there was no BOD. There absolutely was and is a BOD. If you look at our Charter in MD, it says in the seventh article that there are THREE directors. Just before this, Peggy distributed a Press Release that lists Patience as a co-director. If Patience wasn't a director, why would Peggy tell the world two years ago that she was? Its just too convenient now, when we vote her off, that she tries to claim there was no BOD. Further, if you read our weekly email blasts, the first paragraph was signed by me as a "director". Why would Peggy say there is no BOD, when every week she would send out a newsletter with me as a director?
                                It was never formally in place. Prove otherwise.


                                So, how did we decide on a BOD of three? Peggy and I discussed it and WE decided it would be the best, as WE wanted to simplify our organization. Peggy only brought up possibly adding more directors AFTER she learned that she may be voted off. It was her attempt to save her neck. It had nothing to do with the health of the organization. Adding more directors was not the issue. The issue was Peggy.

                                How can you possibly say there is a COI? We have a very nice cross section of classes that are selected by the BOD, including Peggy when she was on the board. Saying there is a COI is like saying all the Sweepstakes commissioners have a COI because they show in Sweepstakes classes. And for your information, Peggy also stands to win prize money, as the get of her stallion are eligible to win prize money, making her stallion eligible to win cash awards, as well as increases the value of her stallion's get and brings in breedings to her stallion. If I wanted to design this program to benefit me, I would have had all the payout in amateur classes, but you will notice every class pays the open divisions, not amateur. Have you looked at the class list? I don't show in driving or dressage, or jumpers, or the In-Hand classes. This list was designed to encourage the MAXIMUM participation, and the huge majority of classes I don't even show in, and Patience only shows in one of them, GP dressage!

                                Patience shows in more than GP dressage with more than 1 horse, are you really saying that she only has one horse showing??? Her clients have benefited nicely from the program. What is interesting is that the first classes that are posted as being SHN Payback classes are classes that YOU and HER will have the chance to WIN some cash. That is a clear case of COI. YOU are choosing classes that YOU show in. It was really simple to see. And you do show IN HAND - OMG Laura your stallion was National Ch. IN HAND -

                                Where in heavens name do you think we dissolved our incorporation in MD? That is simply not true in any sense. The only reason we registered in FL was to protect our organization until we could secure a replacement resident agent for our MD registration. Peggy is using this as a "weapon" to fool everyone into thinking we are now a new organization. Not even close to reality. We have since found a new MD resident agent, a law firm in MD. There is absolutely nothing "illegal" in what we did to protect Payback.
                                I know you didn't dissolve the MD Payback, that was my point. You started a whole new program in FL without dissolving the MD one or legally connecting them in any way. You cannot legally take from the MD Payback and use it for the FL without going through legalities. Period.
                                Laura you need to address the questions on the forums, as Paybak has always been very active on the forums. You need to provide PROOF of your accusations. Peggy has always been and continues to be very professional and upfront. As you can see, NO ONE is buying it.
                                http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  There are only 2 Directors, Laura and myself. Here are the corporate records, type in SHN PAYBACK INC.

                                  http://sdatcert3.resiusa.org/UCC-Cha...rSearch_f.aspx

                                  We never adopted by-laws. I know, dumb. Never added any other Directors, all organizing docs list only Laura & myself, both with the State and the IRS.

                                  Now, Laura has publicly proclaimed there ARE by-laws from 2007, but won't show them (there aren't any)

                                  She claimed I resigned, then that I was voted out. Huh? Still hasn''t produced evidence of notification of a BOD meeting or minutes.

                                  This started in Nov. when Laura started changing access and notifications for the bank accounts without rhyme or reason. This after TWO YEARS of never showing any interest in any of it. After a month of this nonsense, I got worried, wouldn't you? As treasurer, I had a fiduciary duty to protect the assets.

                                  A business person I know advised me to move the $$ temporarily to a Payback account Laura couldn't access and get a Fidelity Bond to protect it. I told her what I was doing and she went ballistic, even "fired" me.

                                  Then it turns out the bonding company requirescountersigning of checks and our bank would not enforce that, so I couldn't get the bond. No longer willing to be responsible for what I couldn't protect, I sent the $$ back to the original account and resigned my duties as Treasurer. To protect myself, I hired a CPA to do an internal review.

                                  Of course, rather than at least understanding my motives for doing this, Laura took the low road. Accusing me of all kinds of crap, and it has not stopped yet. Despite me eliminating the Paypal account to prevent further accusations; despite giving her total control of email correspondence, despite transferring the website to the new webmaster....nothing is enough. She has continued with these accusations, as you can see. Great grounds for a lawsuit I've been told.

                                  This FL corporation was an obvious attempt to get around the fact that I am still a Director of SHN PAYBACK INC. and she cannot do anything to change that.

                                  I have the entire email trail of this time period...it tells the tale.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                                    I don't show in driving or dressage, or jumpers, or the In-Hand classes.
                                    OH REALLY?

                                    Are you not Laura J. Wood of Brooksville, FL, owner of the 2009 US National Champion HA/AA SHIH Stallion SIGNAL BEY?

                                    http://issuu.com/arabianhorseworld/d...se_nat_results view page 1, class 7 (second column towards the bottom)
                                    Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
                                    Sam: A job? Does it pay?
                                    Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
                                    Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Well here's a complete list of the winners of the Payback from 2009, from Laura's own website

                                      http://www.shnpayback.org/payout.html

                                      Note that the following horses are owned by Laura or shown by Patience

                                      OKW Entrigue
                                      Signal Bey
                                      Glitter Bey
                                      ADF Scarlet Ohara
                                      http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                                        First off, if you have questions, then ask us the questions using the email address we provided. As I have said before, that web forum is very difficult to load and the server here overeas bogs down and stops while trying.

                                        If peope have questions on that other forum, they need to ASK US by writing us and not assuming we have read them there, as we have not. It is not a matter of "refusing" but a matter of the proper way to ask someone a question.
                                        Laura, this is the same disingenuous crap you posted on the other forum when trying to get out of providing the information that you KNOW has been asked of you. So, since you want to pretend you haven't seen that discussion, here is the post I made over there the other day - because it applies equally to the comment above. [references below to "the thread" are in regard to the thread at ABN]

                                        Beth
                                        **********

                                        Laura, this comment is just simply disingenuous on your part. For starters, YOU started this thread, so of course you and the BOD knew about it, so why are you claiming "the BOD posted early on when we became aware of this thread". You have also been very aware since the day after YOU started this thread that people have requested a copy of the bylaws, BOD minutes, etc. so they could understand how this whole change in leadership has happened. Again, YOU HAVE BEEN READING and POSTING to this thread, so you know full well those requests have been made. So, trying to claim that because people have asked on the forum and not via email is just a cop out on your part.

                                        Also, a comment WAS made to you via our club E-MAIL list that if you didn't provide the information about the organization structure that was being requested by numerous people, _that_ would cause far more problems than any personal issues between you and Peggy. I know you saw that email, because you claimed you didn't want to get into a mud slinging match, so didn't want to respond on the forum. From what I've seen on this thread, you haven't had any problem with the mud slinging part on this discussion, yet you still refuse to provide the information that has been requested numerous times and now you want to claim that because people haven't requested the information via e-mail, that requests haven't been real or legitimate?

                                        A real leader would have responded to the requests for information, they wouldn't have handled it the way you have chosen to. So before you continue the claims that Peggy is responsible for the pushback the Payback Program is getting right now, take a good look in the mirror. You have playged a HUGE PART in how this whole situation has progressed, so step up to the plate and take responsibility for it - like a real leader would.

                                        Beth

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #40
                                          Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                                          I don't show in driving or dressage, or jumpers, or the In-Hand classes.
                                          After reading this and thinking about it, not only do you show In Hand with your Anglo stallion, but your PB Arabian stallion is showing dressage too.
                                          http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

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