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Is this possible?? A color question...

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  • Is this possible?? A color question...

    Today, I saw a flyer of a registered Paint stud who is also a registered TB. The pic was of a blackish/grey feathery colored horse of the TB type. I have tried to find their website online but can't. This horse is in central Oregon, close to Redmond. I can see registering a colored horse as Pinto, but Paint?

    Also, they advertise 'white' TB's. Not albinos, but white. The pic of the one foal was of a totally white foal, not a grey who will lighten as time goes by. Honestly, I thought maybe it was a Paint at first till I read the description.

    I'm not knocking their horses but really didn't know that a TB could be dual registered. I guess if there is a recessive gene from somewhere, and both parents DNA as TB, the horse is a colored TB??

    What are the rules for this?
    1.20.2013

  • #2
    Paints can only have TB or QH bloodlines. I believe there are some Overos that show up in the TB's. It's a recessive gene.
    Also there are white TB's. And they are not albino.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thanks for the reply. I've been trying to find their website to show the horse but no luck, so far.
      1.20.2013

      Comment


      • #4
        Who's the stallion?

        Yes, a TB can also be APHA. Timely Roberto is one. Guaranteed Gold is another, Noble Houston, and quite a few more.

        Arctic White is a white TB stallion. He's not a max-expressed Sabino, he's actually Dominant White. His family is full of white horses. His sire, Airdrie Apache, has sired quite a few all-white as well as what I think you're describing by "blackish/grey feathery colored horse" AAs farm (Painted Desert) actually has several TB stallions who are also registered APHA. One of AAs sons, Aladin Dancer fits your "blackish/grey feathery colored" description the way I read it
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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        • #5
          Actually, I believe it is a sabino gene that many Thoroughbreds carry although not expressed as much as the ones dual registered. You will see white spots, white over the knees, white under the chin and so on. My 30 year old Thoroughbred stallion is a dark bay but carries a chestnut/sabino gene that expresses when matched up with another recessive in the mare -- has shown up from black, chestnut and even grey mares. There are also palomino Thoroughbreds (JC accepted color now) -- Glitter Please (deceased) was GP dressage and has sons and grandsons standing at stud. Milkie was a palomino and his genes go on with Canadian Kid and so on.
          PennyG

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          • #6
            There is Sabino, and there is Dominant White. Many of the "sabino" TBs are now known to actually be DW.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hip View Post
              I'm not knocking their horses but really didn't know that a TB could be dual registered. I guess if there is a recessive gene from somewhere, and both parents DNA as TB, the horse is a colored TB??

              What are the rules for this?
              The rules used to allow any horse (either TB or QH) with a certain amount of excess white could be registered paint. That is how you got a lot of TBs registered APHA.

              Originally posted by ise@ssl View Post
              It's a recessive gene.
              No, none of the the "overos" are recessive. Sabino is not recessive, Frame is most DEFINITELY not recessive, Dominant White is not recessive and splash is also certainly not recessive.
              Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
              http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                To add to what RMT said about recessive - there are 2 issues at hand - dominance of the gene itself, and whether or not, especially in the case of the Overo patterns, it will be expressed. A gene can be dominant but not be expressed, if that makes sense.
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, a TB can also be APHA. Timely Roberto is one. Guaranteed Gold is another, Noble Houston, and quite a few more
                  not QUITE correct ...

                  Timely Roberto is dual registered, Guaranteed Gold and Noble Houston are not - they are both *listed* with the APHA so any APHA mares that are bred to them, their foals can get full APHA papers (or Breeding Stock) depending on how much white they have

                  My Puchi Trap mare is dual registered, so all of her foals by Guaranteed Gold have dual registration status - Faux Finish, Chai Latte, Remember My Name, TCF Nightlight, etc so they could then also be bred to full TB's and THOSE foals could also get APHA papers as well

                  Several years ago the APHA implemented the "OPP" rule (One Paint Parent). Once upon a time if a TB had a minimum 2 inch piece of white with pink skin underneath, they were in the registry. Now they need to have One Paint Parent in order to get in and that OPP can be a TB, Quarter Horse or Paint - as long as they have APHA papers - Regular or Breeding Stock

                  Hope that helps!
                  www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                  www.truecoloursproducts.com

                  True Colours Farm on Facebook

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                  • #10
                    Here's the farm I think you're talking about, I saw it the other day when I was poking around.

                    http://painteddesert.net/
                    ---------------------------

                    ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Here he 'tis...

                      http://www.painteddesert.net/pfreedom.html

                      I was thinking the farm's name had 'jewel' in it, so there was my problem. This isn't the flyer I saw but it is the horse.
                      1.20.2013

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mistyjewell View Post
                        Here's the farm I think you're talking about, I saw it the other day when I was poking around.

                        http://painteddesert.net/
                        I can be computer challenged so thank you for finding the site.
                        1.20.2013

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, he is double registered Paint And TB.

                          He is also most likely dominant white
                          Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
                          http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is a cool picture!

                            http://painteddesert.net/images/3_white_mares.jpg
                            I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry

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                            • #15
                              Frame overo is present in TBs, too. Blue Eyed Streaker comes to mind.
                              Doubled Expectations (Roxy, 2001 APHA)
                              Al Amir (Al, 2005 OTTB)
                              Ten Purposes (Rosie, 2009 OTTB)

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                              • #16
                                Quite a few Frames. Racey Remarque and many of his sons.

                                I do wish I could see pictures of BES's parents to see where it came from on his side.
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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