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Torino Sold to Anne Kursinski?

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  • #1

    Torino Sold to Anne Kursinski?

    I just saw something that said that Saret (Jump Start Farm) has sold Torino to Anne Kursinski (or to one of her owners/sponsors for her to ride). Is that true? Does anyone know whether he will still be breeding or not?
    "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry
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  • #2
    Originally posted by Portia View Post
    I just saw something that said that Saret (Jump Start Farm) has sold Torino to Anne Kursinski (or to one of her owners/sponsors for her to ride). Is that true? Does anyone know whether he will still be breeding or not?
    Yes, he was sold to Anne and

    ""Please, have your elected officials spayed or neutered. It's the most important thing you can do for them."
    Alex Koppelman, Salon"

    they did, if you call Torino an elected official.
    Sakura Hill Farm
    Now on Facebook

    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.

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    • #3
      that is so unbelievably sad!
      (the gelding part, I'm glad he will be jumping out there)
      Véronique
      www.FormosusSporthorses.ca
      Like us on Facebook

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      • #4
        why?

        was he gelded?

        Comment

        • #5
          Ambitious Plans!

          Torino was gelded because AK has very ambitious plans for Torino over the next few years, including Aachen, the Pan Am Games and hopefully the 2012 Olympics Games. Torino is not a studdy boy, but AK wants him focused on one thing and one thing only, her!

          It's a sad loss to the breeding world, but it's a great tribute to Torino, JSF and all those involved with Torino's development that his talent was recognized by such an iconic figure of American Showjumping.

          There is frozen semen though so there will be more Torino kids running around

          Here is video of AK's trial of Torino in Kentucky.

          http://www.youtube.com/jumpstartfarm.../0/Mj4-suiGxds
          www.avenir-farm.com

          Comment

          • Original Poster
            #6
            I guess I can't blame anyone for gelding a performance horse -- it probably makes his life easier and makes him generally happier and less lonely, even if we regret the loss of his genes and what might have been with future babies. I'm glad I got my two from him first though!

            As for the ambitious plans part, that's great news. I'll really look forward to seeing how he comes along. Then I'll be able to tell young Heron and Laken what their daddy is up to, and what they have to live up to themselves. (As if their grandfathers and great-grandfathers on both sides weren't enough. Poor kids -- no pressure there!)

            Thanks for posting the video link, BWC!
            "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

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            • #7
              I believe there is frozen

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              • #8
                Just a little note to self... There has not been a gelding to win Gold in the Olympics since 1988, and only that one since 1980 (at least). The past four Olympic Gold Medalists have been stallions... Oh well, maybe Torino will buck the trend!
                Not all who wander are lost.

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                • #9
                  Dumb, dumb, dumb

                  That is just about the most stupid thing I have ever heard......my mama could ride that horse!!! Anne must be slipping in her old age.....can't ride a stud....good grief. Even more stupid is if somebody bought him FOR her and they let her talk them into gelding him. I can understand cutting a bad actor that passes on bad things to his babies but Torino, no way. Unbelievable I think I'll go throw that old book of hers in my study in the trash......lost a lot of respect for her with this move.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I am not entirely sure why it is anyone's business or place to judge, other than that we are sad to have lost his genes. The people involved made a decision based on factors quite likely not known to everyone on a community message board, no matter how much you think you know about the horse or the people.

                    If they felt it was in the best interests of the horse and the involved parties, so be it. If you have lost respect for Anne because she made a personal decision to geld HER horse, I am sure she will learn to live with it and still sleep at night. I'm bummed too, but Jeez people.
                    Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

                    http://www.halcyon-hill.com

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                    • #11
                      I am bummed, but not mad at Anne. A little disappointed maybe yeah, but I certainly have not lost any respect for her. I was just pointing out a little (but IME important) fact regarding the best of the best horses in modern sport... You are right that, in reality, it's none of our business why she gelded her horse. And I do truly hope that he bucks the trend and goes on to greatness as a gelding!

                      (and FWIW, I wish I could ride half as well as she does right now - or heck, at any age!)
                      Not all who wander are lost.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by paintjumper View Post
                        That is just about the most stupid thing I have ever heard......my mama could ride that horse!!! Anne must be slipping in her old age.....can't ride a stud....good grief. Even more stupid is if somebody bought him FOR her and they let her talk them into gelding him. I can understand cutting a bad actor that passes on bad things to his babies but Torino, no way. Unbelievable I think I'll go throw that old book of hers in my study in the trash......lost a lot of respect for her with this move.
                        WOW. I think she must have had a good reason. She's an amazing rider and horsewomen.
                        www.grayfoxfarms.com Home of Redwine, Aloha, Federalist, Romantic Star and Rated R.

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                        • #13
                          Plenty of really good stallions have been sold and gelded, and are now happy geldings. This isnt the first time, won't be the last...
                          Tracy Geller
                          www.sixpoundfarm.com
                          Find me on Facebook!

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                          • #14
                            Um..

                            Originally posted by Kinsella View Post
                            Just a little note to self... There has not been a gelding to win Gold in the Olympics since 1988, and only that one since 1980 (at least). The past four Olympic Gold Medalists have been stallions... Oh well, maybe Torino will buck the trend!
                            The gelding De Sjiem won the Olympic gold in individual show jumping in Sydney
                            "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster
                              #15
                              My question on the Olympic record of stallions winning is the cause and effect -- did they win because they were stallions? Or because they were good enough to be stallions?

                              We all know how tough it is to be approved as a warmblood breeding stallion in most registries, and after you have an approved stallion in hand it is relatively rare to geld him (unless you want to turn him into a hunter or he's a bad actor, which we all agree Torino was/is not, and my two from him are very easy to work with). So maybe the real question is what is the performance record for horses who were approved (and proven) stallions and then were gelded?

                              And let's not forget, geldings generally have far less lonely lives than do stallions. He may notice some parts are missing, but he'll also notice that he gets to visit with other horses a lot more than he ever did before.
                              "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                              Comment

                              • #16
                                look at TB racing

                                How many stallions win the big races vs. geldings? Sure there are a few but not nearly as many geldings as stallions. You are going to find a few "outliers" in everything you talk about and try to compare. I had no issue with Silver Creek gelding Autobahn even with his impressive pedigree, he was a tough guy to be around; but Torino is a puppy dog with GREAT BLOODLINES, from a gal that has competed stallions all of my adult life, this was a bad move.

                                Comment

                                • #17
                                  get over it

                                  Originally posted by paintjumper View Post
                                  from a gal that has competed stallions all of my adult life, this was a bad move.
                                  Do you ride Olympic Showjumpers? Nope. I don't think you are qualified to make that judgement then. Obviously she is doing something right, if she's winning. If you are so bummed about it then go out and buy some of the frozen.
                                  I see distances. Most times more than one. Sometimes I pick the right one, sometimes I pick the wrong one, and sometimes I close my eyes and let Jesus take the wheel.

                                  Comment

                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ponygirl View Post
                                    The gelding De Sjiem won the Olympic gold in individual show jumping in Sydney
                                    From a CHIO newsletter:
                                    De Sjiem Retires from Sport

                                    There is no more worthy tournament than the CHIO in Aachen to bid farewell to one's partner from the top international sport: The 16-year-old Dutch stallion, De Sjiem, by Aram, who won gold at the Olympics in Sydney with Jeroen Dubbeldam, said adieu to his numerous fans today. His rider, visibly stirred and close to tears, commented: "He made me what I am today. He has taught me everything I know. I will never be able to replace him." De Sjiem already won a Nations' Cup as an eight-year-old, jumping two clear rounds. A year later he competed in six Nations' Cups without collecting a fault. The highlights of his excellent sports career were winning the gold medal in the individual classification of Sydney in 2000 and winning the Grand Prix of Aachen the year after.
                                    If he was a gelding, I didn't find it in my (admittedly limited) research...
                                    Not all who wander are lost.

                                    Comment

                                    • #19
                                      And let's not forget, geldings generally have far less lonely lives than do stallions. He may notice some parts are missing, but he'll also notice that he gets to visit with other horses a lot more than he ever did before.
                                      I think the life of a high price, high value competition gelding is probably as lonely as that of a well behaved stallion (individual turn out lest he get kicked or hurt...)

                                      I think Torino will perform as well or better as a gelding with his attention focused on the job at hand but if he gets hurt or laid up?... sad. He could have continued to produce for the North American market.
                                      This is doubly sad because he was bringing blood from two stallions that are proven but that are nearly infertile in frozen (Heartbreaker and Cassini).

                                      Maybe if he was an uproven stud we could have said "oh well nothing to prove that he would have been a good stallion!: but he was starting to show sign that he could be a very good producer.

                                      Very disapointed by the turn of event I must say.
                                      But then again, I'm biased because he fitted my mare so beautifully...
                                      Véronique
                                      www.FormosusSporthorses.ca
                                      Like us on Facebook

                                      Comment

                                      • #20
                                        Putting aside the effect it may have on his performance, what's the upside for AK to keep Torino a stallion? The average stallion in this country gets less than 5 breedings a year. I believe it's more dismal than that even, but just for grins, lets go with 5 breedings. Torino did slightly better than the average and he did wonders with his small numbers... Champion foals 4 years in a row, 3 approved sons. But last year, he was not even bid on in the BWP Auction . In Europe, he would be getting at least 100 mares a year (and that is a direct quote from EU breeders not lolely ol' me). Translation: There is a reason for riders in Europe to deal with stallion behavior.

                                        AK purchased Torino for herself. She has very specific, very ambitious goals. I'm sure she has weighed all of the pros and cons. She has ridden and competed stallions before. This is not new to her folks!

                                        Maybe instead of bagging on AK, maybe we should be looking at ourselves first.... There are SO MANY high quality, high performing stallions in this country and we do not support them. Instead, we do as Scott Hassler so wonderfully detailed, we run to the latest trend, support them for a year or two, and then move on to the next trendy stallion that hops off a plane. Competition owners who have or purchase stallions in this country don't think twice of gelding them because there is no financial consequence to their decision.

                                        Flame suit firmly zipped.
                                        www.avenir-farm.com

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