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Torino Sold to Anne Kursinski?

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  • #41
    Cassini I does not have fertility problems, he just doesn't freeze. His full brother does freeze and is producing quite well.

    I agree about Autobahn. I was at the Bahlmanns table when I told them he was gelded. They were disappointed as any breeder would be. They told me they thought he was the best son of Acorado. They also recognized that they did not own the horse and the the decision resides with the owner. We all have preferences and AK has hers. With her knowledge and experience she made her decision with the best interest of the horses performance, not our breeding interests. Lets move on to other Heartbreaker and Cassini I offspring, or in this case Torino offspring. We will always have another generation.

    Tim
    Sparling Rock Holsteiners
    www.sparlingrock.com

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    • #42
      Looking at the video, Torino seems to be be a very well mannered stallion, so gelding him can take out some of the "sparkles" needed for the top of the sport.
      But I never saw the horse in the flesh and can only speak from my point of view (I love the extra something a stallion have over a gelding)
      I hope Anne will succeed with Torino.
      "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, And treat those two imposters just the same"
      Rudyard Kipling
      Quartz Rouge

      Comment


      • #43
        The comments on Anne's riding style on the video - I think that she is bracing and back seat riding because of his jump. Remember it's the try-out and she's feeling his style. That's alot of power and thrust. Many of the BN jumper riders have had unorthodox styles of riding. I was surprised by the long stirrup and the swinging lower leg also, but I would never second guess anyone that has been as successful as her. She can come seat ride my horse any day.

        I will look forward to seeing what style she works out with him, and how he responds to her. The sky really is the limit on a horse with this potential

        I would also tend to agree that stallions might have an edge with extra heart, but Torino is a strong personality. Time will tell.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by baywithchrome2 View Post
          It's frustrating to watch all the international quality stallions at WEF that we never tap into. It's frustrating to watch stallions like Torino and Caballo be gelded b/c there is no demand. It's frustrating to have stallions like Quick Star, Chin Chin, Carolus, Con Caletto in our back yard only to be sent back to Europe because nobody here bred to them.

          But the especially frustrating part is that its not because we are not breeding, it's because we breed to the flavor of the month. We have a very short-term perspective to breeding. We don't think generationally like the Europeans.

          What's most fascinating to me in watching this board and observing the American market... we love the European cache and automatically assign a higher value to anything that comes from Europe. But in our breeding practices, we reject the very ideas that create these horses.

          Perhaps this sounds like a vent, and well, it is. To me, Torino's gelding is just another wake-up call in a long string of them.
          While I agree that people breed for flavor of the month, I disagree that it is US based. This practice began in Europe, and we are copying them. Back in the early 80s, the new breeding director for the Hanoverian Verband took them in a new direction. One of marketing, rather than performance. Nothing has been the same since.

          Torino may have gotten 100 breedings in Europe, that but that is fairly comparable to 5 to 10 here. There are at least 10 to 20 times the breeders there. The flavor of the month stallions get a thousand or more, and often before they have produced a crop of babies.

          They also are breeding for that quick sale - auction foal. They ride the hype of the latest and greatest, and move on to the next new unproven superstar.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by baywithchrome2 View Post
            Thanks Barbara. I'm glad I was taken to town (at least yet...this might do it). It's just SO frustrating to watch. It's frustrating to watch all the international quality stallions at WEF that we never tap into. It's frustrating to watch stallions like Torino and Caballo be gelded b/c there is no demand. It's frustrating to have stallions like Quick Star, Chin Chin, Carolus, Con Caletto in our back yard only to be sent back to Europe because nobody here bred to them.

            But the especially frustrating part is that its not because we are not breeding, it's because we breed to the flavor of the month. We have a very short-term perspective to breeding. We don't think generationally like the Europeans. We are influenced by glitzy marketing. We are influenced by color and socks and a pretty face. We are influenced by what SO speaks the loudest and most frequently on this board.

            If we are ever going to catch up to Europe, we need to think beyond a single generation. Yes, you might have a pretty baby, but if its lacking the scope to be anything more than a 3' hunter and doesn't have the gaits to be a competitive dressage horse, what do you have to offer the market? And from a breeding perspective, where do you go now? You took a step backwards or at best, a step sideways.

            What's most fascinating to me in watching this board and observing the American market... we love the European cache and automatically assign a higher value to anything that comes from Europe. But in our breeding practices, we reject the very ideas that create these horses.

            Perhaps this sounds like a vent, and well, it is. To me, Torino's gelding is just another wake-up call in a long string of them.
            I agree with you on many points, but I do think breeding mares (and the service that goes along with that) is not always the top priority of the owners of these really good stallions, especially when breeding season may run into their show seasons. The disinterest of the owner can make it really tough to breed to those horses, even when the breeder is willing.
            Tracy Geller
            www.sixpoundfarm.com
            Find me on Facebook!

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
              While I agree that people breed for flavor of the month, I disagree that it is US based. This practice began in Europe, and we are copying them. Back in the early 80s, the new breeding director for the Hanoverian Verband took them in a new direction. One of marketing, rather than performance. Nothing has been the same since.

              Torino may have gotten 100 breedings in Europe, that but that is fairly comparable to 5 to 10 here. There are at least 10 to 20 times the breeders there. The flavor of the month stallions get a thousand or more, and often before they have produced a crop of babies.

              They also are breeding for that quick sale - auction foal. They ride the hype of the latest and greatest, and move on to the next new unproven superstar.
              While some in Europe use the flavor of the month, the fundamental difference is that they use proven mares that have mare lines standing behind them. They know their mares inside and out. What they produce and what they need is not a mystery. They are also stallions that have gone through an extensive selection process. While new, they still come from very proven stock.
              Last edited by ponygirl; Feb. 24, 2010, 03:50 PM. Reason: added "and out"
              "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

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              • #47
                I do think breeding mares (and the service that goes along with that) is not always the top priority of the owners of these really good stallions, especially when breeding season may run into their show seasons. The disinterest of the owner can make it really tough to breed to those horses, even when the breeder is willing.
                Almost 100% of the breeding stallions that are competing at a high level in Europe are available only with frozen semen.
                "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, And treat those two imposters just the same"
                Rudyard Kipling
                Quartz Rouge

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by andy.smaga View Post
                  Almost 100% of the breeding stallions that are competing at a high level in Europe are available only with frozen semen.
                  Andy - I don't know if this is always true, but even if it is just some of the time, I'm very, very jealous! Is it true that you guys pay for the frozen semen breeding only after the mare is confirmed in foal and that you are guaranteed a foal from it?
                  www.avenir-farm.com

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                  • #49
                    This is not true for the stallions in very high demand, but this way of guaranteeing a live foal is gaining momentum, at least in France, to help breeders in those difficult times.
                    "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, And treat those two imposters just the same"
                    Rudyard Kipling
                    Quartz Rouge

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by andy.smaga View Post
                      This is not true for the stallions in very high demand, but this way of guaranteeing a live foal is gaining momentum, at least in France, to help breeders in those difficult times.
                      I applaud the stallion owners and stations that are doing this.
                      "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Torino 3yr old stallion out of aunt to Sprehe Stella

                        Originally posted by pony grandma View Post
                        Some of you just gained some expensive real estate standing in your backyard Kudos to everyone with the Torino get. Especially the newly licensed sons. I bet that this is going to get quite interesting if Torino makes his mark competitively. AK is a kind and highly competitve rider, he is in good hands.

                        Opportunity sometimes doesn't come without some sacrifices. It will be fun to follow their progress.
                        H-Cassino #1 BWP colt in NA by Torino is leaving for Germany in May where he will be competing with Pato Muente. His 2 yr old fraternal half sister Tulip Z out of a Seacrest mother will follow next year.
                        www.performancesires.com Breeder and Importer of Competition Horses, Breeding Stock and Frozen Semen from the Most Successful Performance Families

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