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Torino Sold to Anne Kursinski?

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  • #21
    I don't think you should have to put a flame suit on as I believe that your post is accuate.

    Comment

    • #22
      Originally posted by baywithchrome2 View Post
      Maybe instead of bagging on AK, maybe we should be looking at ourselves first.... There are SO MANY high quality, high performing stallions in this country and we do not support them. Instead, we do as Scott Hassler so wonderfully detailed, we run to the latest trend, support them for a year or two, and then move on to the next trendy stallion that hops off a plane. Competition owners who have or purchase stallions in this country don't think twice of gelding them because there is no financial consequence to their decision.

      Flame suit firmly zipped.
      Bingo.
      I see distances. Most times more than one. Sometimes I pick the right one, sometimes I pick the wrong one, and sometimes I close my eyes and let Jesus take the wheel.

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      • Original Poster
        #23
        I agree completely BWC.

        I think it is important that this is AK's horse -- one she bought for herself, not a client's horse that she is riding. She may well have formed the opinion over the years that there is no significant benefit in being a stallion in performance, and she might personally have preferred that some of those stallions she has ridden so successfully were geldings, but that wasn't her decision.

        It will be sad if he is injured or laid up, and then can't accomplish the performance goal or be available for breeding. But that can be said of any nice gelding, can't it? I gelded my Torino colt (out of my Pikadero/Prinz Gaylord mare), even though he won his inspection and might well have made a stallion. But I don't need a stallion, and he is a happy boy, out with his younger sister. I am, however, glad that I also have the filly, so if I want more Torino blood in the future, I can get it through her.
        "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

        Comment

        • #24
          Originally posted by baywithchrome2 View Post
          Putting aside the effect it may have on his performance, what's the upside for AK to keep Torino a stallion? The average stallion in this country gets less than 5 breedings a year. I believe it's more dismal than that even, but just for grins, lets go with 5 breedings. Torino did slightly better than the average and he did wonders with his small numbers... Champion foals 4 years in a row, 3 approved sons. But last year, he was not even bid on in the BWP Auction . In Europe, he would be getting at least 100 mares a year (and that is a direct quote from EU breeders not lolely ol' me). Translation: There is a reason for riders in Europe to deal with stallion behavior.

          AK purchased Torino for herself. She has very specific, very ambitious goals. I'm sure she has weighed all of the pros and cons. She has ridden and competed stallions before. This is not new to her folks!

          Maybe instead of bagging on AK, maybe we should be looking at ourselves first.... There are SO MANY high quality, high performing stallions in this country and we do not support them. Instead, we do as Scott Hassler so wonderfully detailed, we run to the latest trend, support them for a year or two, and then move on to the next trendy stallion that hops off a plane. Competition owners who have or purchase stallions in this country don't think twice of gelding them because there is no financial consequence to their decision.

          Flame suit firmly zipped.
          I agree 100%

          Comment

          • #25
            Flame suit on....she hit him in the mouth a few times and her stirrups are at least 2/3 holes too long. Little forgiveness over the top of the fences with her hands.

            I think it is a shame to geld him.....he looks like no trouble really.
            The rider casts his heart over the fence,
            the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

            –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

            Comment

            • #26
              Originally posted by europa View Post
              Flame suit on....she hit him in the mouth a few times and her stirrups are at least 2/3 holes too long. Little forgiveness over the top of the fences with her hands.

              I think it is a shame to geld him.....he looks like no trouble really.
              Just saying.
              "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

              Comment

              • #27
                eye popping....that got a response.

                Oh don't get me wrong Anne really is great...just noticed that is all.
                The rider casts his heart over the fence,
                the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

                –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

                Comment

                • #28
                  Originally posted by europa View Post
                  eye popping....that got a response.

                  Oh don't get me wrong Anne really is great...just noticed that is all.
                  The sheer power of this horse is not captured on video- at all. He is something one must see jump in the flesh to grasp the magnitude of his power. I did not see her catch him when I watched but if she did, I guarantee you it's because he pulled out one of his doozy jumps.
                  "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

                  Comment

                  • #29
                    He really is lovely. That is for sure. I hope she does really well with him.
                    The rider casts his heart over the fence,
                    the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

                    –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

                    Comment

                    • #30
                      Well, of course, one can't fault AK for making decisions in accordance with her goals. Still makes me go "aww.." a little though.

                      However, there is another Heartbreaker/Cassini I stallion in N. America. And there is a Heartbreaker/Calvados as well.

                      Any others? (I am thinking of the Ferme Beaulieu stallion and of Timebreaker)

                      Comment

                      • #31
                        They really have incredible stallions. The only thing that stops me from using them is they aren't approved Oldenburg. I fell in love with Toulon initially then Beaulieu's Heartbreaker who is Heartbreaker Cassini I. Man what a gorgeous stallion!
                        The rider casts his heart over the fence,
                        the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

                        –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

                        Comment

                        • #32
                          Originally posted by showjumpers66 View Post
                          I don't think you should have to put a flame suit on as I believe that your post is accuate.

                          Thanks Barbara. I'm glad I was taken to town (at least yet...this might do it). It's just SO frustrating to watch. It's frustrating to watch all the international quality stallions at WEF that we never tap into. It's frustrating to watch stallions like Torino and Caballo be gelded b/c there is no demand. It's frustrating to have stallions like Quick Star, Chin Chin, Carolus, Con Caletto in our back yard only to be sent back to Europe because nobody here bred to them.

                          But the especially frustrating part is that its not because we are not breeding, it's because we breed to the flavor of the month. We have a very short-term perspective to breeding. We don't think generationally like the Europeans. We are influenced by glitzy marketing. We are influenced by color and socks and a pretty face. We are influenced by what SO speaks the loudest and most frequently on this board.

                          If we are ever going to catch up to Europe, we need to think beyond a single generation. Yes, you might have a pretty baby, but if its lacking the scope to be anything more than a 3' hunter and doesn't have the gaits to be a competitive dressage horse, what do you have to offer the market? And from a breeding perspective, where do you go now? You took a step backwards or at best, a step sideways.

                          What's most fascinating to me in watching this board and observing the American market... we love the European cache and automatically assign a higher value to anything that comes from Europe. But in our breeding practices, we reject the very ideas that create these horses.

                          Perhaps this sounds like a vent, and well, it is. To me, Torino's gelding is just another wake-up call in a long string of them.
                          www.avenir-farm.com

                          Comment

                          • #33
                            I really don't think the Europeans are soo unlike us....they just have a smaller funnel to work with as far as riding goes. Basically they have 2 disciplines....Dressage and jumping. There are no hunters or basically anything else so to speak of. A few have taken up western and some eventers but here in the US there are soo many different things to distract and soo much distance between them. So...they are more focused.

                            The Europeans are just as prone to go for the flavor of the month so I am not sure about that one at all. They can deal in numbers. They take a stallion and cross it with every imaginable line and see what works. We just don't have that luxury.

                            That having been said I think alot of US breeders are doing a fine job and maybe in 20 years we will be the dominant force. Who knows. There is no lack of quality here that is for sure.
                            The rider casts his heart over the fence,
                            the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

                            –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

                            Comment

                            • #34
                              Some of you just gained some expensive real estate standing in your backyard Kudos to everyone with the Torino get. Especially the newly licensed sons. I bet that this is going to get quite interesting if Torino makes his mark competitively. AK is a kind and highly competitve rider, he is in good hands.

                              Opportunity sometimes doesn't come without some sacrifices. It will be fun to follow their progress.
                              The cue card kid just held up an empty cue card. For a minute there I thought I had lost my sense of humor. --- Red Skelton

                              Comment

                              • #35
                                I am surprised he was gelded. We have one of the Torino sons (Equinox) as I have mentioned. We also have a Torino mare, Gaea, that is just turning 4. She is the full sister to Elio, also a Torino son. For us we have plenty of Torino to breed to, but I am sad to see Torino becoming a gelding.

                                Comment

                                • #36
                                  My personal opinion is that the most successful european breeders are the ones that know there mares and don't chase the hot young stallion unless the feel that they would be an excellent match for a certain mare and then they will use him with hopeful caution.

                                  Joe

                                  Comment

                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by pony grandma View Post
                                    Some of you just gained some expensive real estate standing in your backyard Kudos to everyone with the Torino get. Especially the newly licensed sons. I bet that this is going to get quite interesting if Torino makes his mark competitively. AK is a kind and highly competitve rider, he is in good hands.

                                    Opportunity sometimes doesn't come without some sacrifices. It will be fun to follow their progress.
                                    A very close friend of mine was a groom to a US dressage rider at the Barcelona Olympics. She watched many riders school their horses while there. I can tell you that she has great respect for AK and has said she's a true horsewoman in every sense of the word. I can tell you that when I found out that Torino went to Anne I sighed in relief as yes, he's in fabulous hands.
                                    "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."

                                    Comment

                                    • #38
                                      BWC is my hero!

                                      I agree with you 1000%.

                                      And again, I am not in any way shape or form knocking AK. She really has nothing to prove to anyone.

                                      Now, does anyone know if she is down here with Torino???
                                      Not all who wander are lost.

                                      Comment

                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Kinsella View Post
                                        Now, does anyone know if she is down here with Torino???
                                        Torino is at AK's barn in Wellington.
                                        www.avenir-farm.com

                                        Comment

                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by paintjumper View Post
                                          That is just about the most stupid thing I have ever heard......my mama could ride that horse!!! Anne must be slipping in her old age.....can't ride a stud....good grief. Even more stupid is if somebody bought him FOR her and they let her talk them into gelding him. I can understand cutting a bad actor that passes on bad things to his babies but Torino, no way. Unbelievable I think I'll go throw that old book of hers in my study in the trash......lost a lot of respect for her with this move.
                                          Her money, her horse, her decision. Nuff said.
                                          Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
                                          www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.com

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