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Morgan Peeps - pedigree help

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  • Morgan Peeps - pedigree help

    I know very little about the Morgan breed (other than their great reputation for being honest, loyal, hard working and fun), but would love to know what those who do think of this mare's pedigree.

    http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/greentree+princess+ali

    Thanks in advance for any light you can shed!

  • #2
    No, nothing of Morgans but that is some serious line breeding.
    I know that it is not uncommon for Morgans, but am amazed at how well it seems to work for them. There must be very few inherited diseases in the breed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by duecavalle View Post
      I know very little about the Morgan breed (other than their great reputation for being honest, loyal, hard working and fun), but would love to know what those who do think of this mare's pedigree.
      Thanks in advance for any light you can shed!
      lots of western working blood and myself I have always liked grand dad
      http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/greentree+bonniejohn

      he's kinda plain headed but otherwise nice

      Tamara in TN
      not a Morgan in sight
      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

      Comment


      • #4
        Her sire is a very sporty Morgan. Many of the Greentree Morgans have excelled in Dressage, Hunters, Carriage & Combined Driving. They are known for their big hearts and endurance. They usually have 3 very nice gaits. Also, tend to be good size, over 15h. Flyhawk is well know for his trot. Said to be very fast. From the looks of her dam, Greentree was going for black here. I'm not personally fond of Chingadero in any pedigree. Years ago when the "colorful" Morgans were becoming a thing, it was said by many old time breeders that this horse carried some wild blood. But take that knowledge with the fact that this breed is based on 1 stallion breeding any mare that happened along and then 3 sons doing the same thing. I'm sure she's cute with lots of hair!
        http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by stripes View Post
          Her sire is a very sporty Morgan. Many of the Greentree Morgans have excelled in Dressage, Hunters, Carriage & Combined Driving. They are known for their big hearts and endurance. They usually have 3 very nice gaits. Also, tend to be good size, over 15h. Flyhawk is well know for his trot. Said to be very fast. From the looks of her dam, Greentree was going for black here. I'm not personally fond of Chingadero in any pedigree. Years ago when the "colorful" Morgans were becoming a thing, it was said by many old time breeders that this horse carried some wild blood. But take that knowledge with the fact that this breed is based on 1 stallion breeding any mare that happened along and then 3 sons doing the same thing. I'm sure she's cute with lots of hair!
          Stripes, thanks for the info. the horse in question is being considered for a dressage career. She was started driving but seems to prefer riding.

          Can anyone speak to stoicfish's comment about the line breeding? Is this cause for concern?

          This may sound idiotic to all of you breeders, but how does one know if a horse is line-bred? On her dam's side I see "H. Chester" and "Chingadero" repeated a couple of times - is that it?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by stoicfish View Post
            No, nothing of Morgans but that is some serious line breeding.
            I know that it is not uncommon for Morgans, but am amazed at how well it seems to work for them. There must be very few inherited diseases in the breed.
            It does work well in general but get a good look at his legs... Morgans are somewhat prone to club feet etc. and this can be an issue in some linebreedings...
            You have to have experiences to gain experience.

            1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

            Comment


            • #7
              I had an old style morgan mare as a child, and she was absolutely the best horse ever!!!

              I am not too familiar with the horses in this ones pedigree, but in regards to Stoicfish's comment about the line breeding, that is some seriously close up stuff.

              3rd generation (dam sire to his own daughter) Ooo. Insest? :-P Haha. If the mare appears healthy and sane, and passes the PPE, then I wouldnt worry about it.

              I would think the big thing to worry about with that kind of breeding would be mental stability. If you have access to the dam, I would evaluate her to see how "sane" she is. Also, if she has other offspring, what are they doing? Any careers? But that is me being very thorough.

              Again, if you havent noticed anything yet, I would think she would be fine, but I have never really delt with a horse with inbreeding that close up.

              I would love to see pictures. My morgan was the old style Justin morgan type. She really was super amazing. I would love to find another like her someday.
              "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
              A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by duecavalle View Post
                This may sound idiotic to all of you breeders, but how does one know if a horse is line-bred? On her dam's side I see "H. Chester" and "Chingadero" repeated a couple of times - is that it?
                If you are not a man, pretend.
                It would be the equivalent of you having a female child with a cousin who is related to you from both (your mother and father) sides of your family. Then having a another child with that daughter. That is the dam of the mare in question. I understand that line breeding is very common with Morgans. I hope a Morgan person can give you an answer as it is interesting. Would any WB registries allow a father/daughter cross in recently times?

                Posted same time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by stripes View Post
                  Her sire is a very sporty Morgan. Many of the Greentree Morgans have excelled in Dressage, Hunters, Carriage & Combined Driving. They are known for their big hearts and endurance. They usually have 3 very nice gaits. Also, tend to be good size, over 15h. Flyhawk is well know for his trot. Said to be very fast. From the looks of her dam, Greentree was going for black here. I'm not personally fond of Chingadero in any pedigree. Years ago when the "colorful" Morgans were becoming a thing, it was said by many old time breeders that this horse carried some wild blood. But take that knowledge with the fact that this breed is based on 1 stallion breeding any mare that happened along and then 3 sons doing the same thing. I'm sure she's cute with lots of hair!
                  I pretty much agree, but will say that a lot of the "Working Western" horses, regardless of color, do carry crosses to the "X mares" who were usually ranch-bred mares with a lot of Morgan blood and a Morgan top line, but not 100% Morgan. Those mares helped save the breed. (In fact, just looked at Chingadero's pedigree and there are a couple of horses that are openly acknowledged to be non-Morgans.) But keep in mind that the Morgan stud book was not closed until 1948, and I personally would rather see non-Morgan breeding acknowledged than the covered-up breedings to Saddlebreds that occurred after the stud book was closed.

                  Also, Jubilee King and his full sister Sentola are great, old, influences in Morgan sport pedigrees.

                  My mare is of somewhat similar breeding, a more "modern" pedigree sire (with a park horse dam, which adds spice!), crossed with a Working Western/Brunk mare. She's quite athletic and tries her little heart out, and is not hairy at all. If anything, she takes after that park horse grand-dam the most, in "spice" and looks, but not gaits. (Her pedigree is at http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mythic+feronia)
                  You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                  1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think I personally know that mare. If it's the one I knew, she's very pretty, feminine, nice moving and sensible. She lives up to the name Princess in the way she presents herself!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      working western

                      The dam side is Working Western Morgan breeding and you can learn a lot about working morgans if you search "working western" morgan horse. That will get you information about many of the horses in your pedigree or the thought behind breeding them. The stallions on the sire side are much more common and some go to some Saddlebred(Mrs Culvers to Harrison Chief)...that is nothing out of the ordinary as most Morgans have some Saddlebred via Bennington as opposed to the secret Saddlebred in modern Morgan show horses. Your mare has the old lines...a lot of purists don't like it even then but I prefer the Saddlebred lines to be from when Saddlebreds were good useful horses instead of modern Saddlebreds. The dam lines on top are also midwestern or working western. Either way there is a lot on the internet about these horses. You can try searches on most of the stallions in the pedigree and should get pictures on many. And don't worry about line breeding if you have a well conformed mare of good temperament. If you were to breed her some thought would need to go into how to use the line breeding but if she is to be a working Morgan then she is what she is. Good Luck. PatO
                      Last edited by columbus; Feb. 22, 2010, 10:11 PM. Reason: mistake

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well I love Greentree Brigadier and everything behind him!

                        Her dam line is quiet and lovely old breeding. I love the crosses to Flyhawk and Kenfield..

                        She is not highly linebred for a Morgan. Please remember that we do not have a big gene pool to work with so you will see a bit more linebreeding than in breeds that have a larger gene pool and what we do have is spred over the entire country. So before shipped semen there was even less of a gene pool to breed with.

                        The other reason for the line breeding is to bring out and cement in those Morgan characteristics that the old breeders thought were important. Please remember that those old breeders were doing everything in their power to save the Morgan blood and to create a consistant "type".

                        The majority of Morgans have many X lines in their pedigrees and with DNA in place we will never see illegal outcrossing again....

                        It is a young breed and has many different facets... That is the fun with Morgans.. you breed and have the type you adore (interestingly almost all still look like a Morgan no matter the "type")... They are all Morgans and all Morgan types are perfect in their own ways..
                        In Celebration of all Morgan horses

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ParkMorgan View Post
                          It is a young breed and has many different facets... That is the fun with Morgans.. you breed and have the type you adore (interestingly almost all still look like a Morgan no matter the "type")... They are all Morgans and all Morgan types are perfect in their own ways..
                          I was going to mention that in my post - I'd always been so surprised at the variety of types - but how you could still always identifying them easily as Morgans.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My favorite internet reference site for introducing someone to Morgan bloodlines:

                            http://www.sportmorgan.com/families/
                            "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong View Post
                              My favorite internet reference site for introducing someone to Morgan bloodlines:

                              http://www.sportmorgan.com/families/
                              I will second this one. Especially for sporthorse people, it shows how varied Morgans can be.

                              My little mare isn't the most "Morgany" around and she regularly gets taken for an Arab cross because of her dishy face and her tail carriage. I've also had people wonder if she's a TB cross, an ASB cross or even a small WB. The palomino coloring throws some people, too. Under saddle, though, she's all Morgan.
                              You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                              1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Ann,

                                I have a buckskin that constantly confuses people. LOL at 16 hands, 1200 pounds and a dishy face, super long neck they just can't even guess...but as soon as I tell them they always say "oh of course a Morgan" LOL
                                In Celebration of all Morgan horses

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by ParkMorgan View Post
                                  Ann,

                                  I have a buckskin that constantly confuses people. LOL at 16 hands, 1200 pounds and a dishy face, super long neck they just can't even guess...but as soon as I tell them they always say "oh of course a Morgan" LOL
                                  That's pretty much the reaction I get to mine. Once I say she's a Morgan, people get it. She's long-legged, lightly built, 15 hands and about 850 pounds, a VERY deep Palomino (pumpkin colored, with mane and tail that are a mix of white, gold, and black. Yes, she DNA tested as Palomino...) Photo from last summer at http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/july23_2009/walk.jpg ... She is currently, alas, scheduled for surgery on her left hind suspensory so I am not riding her now
                                  You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                                  1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    She is a lovely little mare! and I love the deep palomino..
                                    In Celebration of all Morgan horses

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Thanks everyone for your input! I'm off to read up on the breed.

                                      TwoFatPonies if you care to share any further insight on this mare, please feel free to PM me!

                                      -due

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