• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Do you ever not do a culture?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Do you ever not do a culture?

    We were getting hay today, and the hay man was there getting ready to breed a mare. We got to talking, and he mentioned that he never did any kind of uterine checkups or cultures or anything on his mares. His reasoning was that he'd had the same mares forever and they never showed a problem before. Do you ever just not have your mares cultured?

    I dunno, it seems like breeding is so expensive, and can be so heart breaking, I'd rather spend the money every year and never have a single problem than have a mare not take or lose a baby.

  • #2
    I'm not doing my maiden mare and breeding her this year. I think it is more common with bigger breeders as I recently spoke with a stallion owner w/ several mares that did not culture their mares unless they knew of a problem. I think some stallion owners who ship semen out require this as part of the agreement ?

    Comment


    • #3
      I learnt my lesson last year trying to get my mare in foal (she had just had one, easy breeder) wasted time as she had a positive result on her culture.

      This year will culture first.
      I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.

      Comment


      • #4
        I haven't in a couple of maidens, or if it's the first heat after foal-heat.

        But I *would* before a second breeding if the first didn't take.
        InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

        Comment


        • #5
          I do not culture my maidens or when breeding on foal heat.

          Our breeding contract requires culture, but I will verbally excuse it on maidens or for foal heat breedings.
          "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
          Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
          Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
          Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB

          Comment


          • #6
            Have not done one in years and don't recommend it unless there is a suspicion because if there is a problem you can usually breed and treat in the same cycle anyway. We find that very seldom there is an unknown problem and when there is one it is usually not persistent when treated properly. I base this on hundreds of successful breedings a year and feel it is a waste of money for most mare owners to do a culture when it only benefits a few.
            www.immunallusa.com
            www.rainbowequus.com Home of stallions that actually produced champion hunter, jumper and dressage offspring and now also champion eventers

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with Edgar and that is the opinion of two of my vets also, one of them is a therionologist.
              I *hate* it when its on the breeding contract and usually try to get out of doing one by changing the contract ( it represnet close to $150 extra cost for me). If the stallion owner is adamant I've often walked unless it was the *absolute* best stallion for my mare or if it was a custom foal.
              Véronique
              www.FormosusSporthorses.ca
              Like us on Facebook

              Comment


              • #8
                We learned our lesson the hard way this year, spend loads on trying to get a mare bred and she then tested positive on the culture we did after the 2nd breeding attempt. By that point, we had one go left in the season and we were dealing with a major infection. We tried again, but it didn't work...so essentially I could have saved myself a heap of money and had a baby this year had I done my homework earlier.
                The culture cost for me was $60, and my time to haul my mare to the vet, while the cost of my breeding attempts was almost 5k. That tells me all I need to know about what I'll be doing in the future, for any mare I've left open one season anyhow.
                Proud Momma:

                Imax - Fresstyle x Juventus x Rubinstein
                2014 - Sister to IMAX (hopefully)

                Comment


                • #9
                  I never do a culture unless I have a positive cytology. The stallion owners I've worked with accept a negative cytology in lieu of a culture.

                  That said, I usually do a cytology before the first insemination of the year.
                  Liz
                  Ainninn House Stud
                  Irish Draughts and Connemaras
                  Co. Westmeath, Ireland

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I never have swabs taken. We breed six to eight mares every year onsite the majority of which have held on first time insemination year after year. The only time I have had the mares swabbed is when they have gone off to stud to be bred with frozen semen as its stud policy to do so. To be honest I've never given it much thought until I read your thread.

                    Nonethless all visiting mares do have to be swabbed and vaccinations up to date.
                    Last edited by L&L; Feb. 10, 2010, 07:35 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have stopped doing it after several years and only ever having one positive which was after a fresh semen breeding with very questionable looking semen. The mare showed signs of inflamation so I would do one in that case even now. But, unless there is indication of a problem, I see no reason and think it is a waste of money. If you know your mares and their history, I think your potential to create a problem outweighs the benefit. I can't imagine someone wanting to check a maiden.
                      Nancy
                      http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eustis...s/317195320554

                      www.SenecaRidge.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I can tell you from owning an equine veterinary practice that maidens can, and do, have infections. Simply b/c of the anatomy of the mare, any mare can have an infection, considering the possibility of contamination with fecal material. We have, and continue to reccomend a pre-breeding culture and cytology on all mares. I also do this with my own mares, so it isn't simply an issue of generating revenue, either. I've seen far too many clients lose a cycle due to an infected mare.
                        Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My fear is not only losing a cycle, but losing the one dose, or even x # of straws I may have of a stallion that is hard and/or expensive to obtain. Thinking of my gamble with Canturo- I even go so far as to wait until the mare has her first foal before using my scanty semen dose!
                          Sakura Hill Farm
                          Now on Facebook

                          Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There are several factors to consider in response to the question of uterine evaluation (note that I am referencing uterine evaluation and not a uterine culture specifically). The first point that I will make is that a uterine swab culture alone is absolutely worthless as a definitive diagnostic of uterine condition. The results must be confirmed by the findings of a cytology smear of the swab - for more details on why, see our article about uterine cytology - also note in that article the statistic of the percentage of veterinarians that do not routinely perform a cytology smear in conjunction with a culture, so specifically ask for one!

                            Now let's consider numbers... if a breeder is breeding 100 of their own mares, then statistically speaking 60% of them will get pregnant on the first breeding cycle, so performing 60 unnecessary swabs and c+c would be a huge waste of time and money. HOWEVER... if a breeder is breeding only 1 mare, then with a statistical pregnancy rate of 60%, that means a wasted cycle for almost half of those mare owners - quite possibly as a result of a uterine issue. From a statistical aspect therefore, the small breeder (let's say 1-5 mares) is probably better off financially and time-wise (and we're not considering other possible aspects here that have already been raised such as limited semen supply) to perform at the very least a pre-breeding swab and cytology smear if not the culture. The cytology smear incidentally is quickly performed and will reliably tell you more alone than will a culture.

                            So what about the 40% of mares that the breeder did not get pregnant on the first cycle (statistically)? The next cycle it now becomes worthwhile taking a look at the uterus and it's contents. As noted above, at the very least a cytology smear being prepared and read will identify the majority of mares in this group that have issues related to uterine organisms, and allow for further diagnostics. Again - statistically - 60% of these mares (once treated suitably) will become pregnant on this second cycle, so we are now up to 84% of mares pregnant while minimizing diagnostic expenses.

                            If a mare is not pregnant after two cycles of breeding and swab diagnostics at some level, then the decision needs to be made on the next cycle as to whether to (a) repeat the breeding and consider the failure to establish pregnancy on cycle 2 "just one of those things"; (b) repeat the diagnostic on the off chance that something was missed; (c) increase the level of diagnostic by performing a biopsy and culture. All have valid arguments to be made for them, and should be considered in the individual circumstances.

                            In the face of obvious issues, it is of course a false economy not to perform diagnostics. What are "obvious issues"? Here are a few:
                            • Poor reproductive conformation;
                            • Fluid - especially grayscale fluid - identified per ultrasound;
                            • Failure to establish pregnancy in prior season;
                            • Mares that have had uterine pathogenic issues in the past;
                            • Repeat breeder mares from the same season.

                            On the subject of maiden mares: We have seen maiden mares that have come off the racetrack present with Pseudomonas aeruginosa (which is sexually transmissible in live cover situations) even though they have a Caslick's procedure in place! We therefore do not consider maiden mares to be a "never swab" situation. If they fit one of the categories above, then they get swabbed. For those that are considering live cover and not swabbing mares prior to breeding - think of the possibility of transmission of a bacterial STD. Rare? Sure! But if it happens just once to your stallion... Incidentally, if you read the article on our site to which I have linked above, you will see that Pseudomonas spp. have the possibility of being a commensal organism (one which is present but not active in the body until something triggers activity), and is the one argument against performing a cytology smear alone, as there may not be inflammatory cells present even if the mare is infected with that pathogen if the organism is in a commensal state - hence swab, culture and cytology is always recommended in live cover situations.

                            With the presence of Taylorella equigenitalis (the causative agent of CEM) now identified in our US horse population, there is also a strong argument to be made for pre-breeding swabbing and culturing of the mare's clitoris and clitoral sinuses to evaluate for presence/absence of the CEMO. This is standard practice in other countries such as the United Kingdom, where the British Horserace Betting Levy Board's Codes of Practice on CEM and other sexually transmitted organisms is voluntarily adhered to by many - in particular in the Thoroughbred field where AI is not permitted and there is therefore a greater risk of transmission of pathogens during breeding. North America is far behind those other countries in the preventative care measures that are in place.
                            Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
                            Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X