• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

? For all you Jumper Breeders out there.

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • ? For all you Jumper Breeders out there.

    I understand that jumping is one trait that the "experts" (who ARE they, anyway?) have decided can be/is passed on genetically.

    Hmmm.

    First, any comments on that statement.

    Secondly, I am considering a colt with an *extraordinary* pedigree (four-generations of toptoptop jumpers.)

    Please don't laugh if this is the dumbest question in the world, but for something like jumping, do you buy on pedigree alone? I mean, with dressage, it's *somewhat* easier: you look for/at movement. But yearlings shouldnt' be freejumped, so...

    Anyone get my conundrum here? What's your take on it? BTW, don't want to mention specifics. Can we keep this discussion hypothetical?

    The adventure has begun...
    KT
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders
  • Original Poster

    #2
    I understand that jumping is one trait that the "experts" (who ARE they, anyway?) have decided can be/is passed on genetically.

    Hmmm.

    First, any comments on that statement.

    Secondly, I am considering a colt with an *extraordinary* pedigree (four-generations of toptoptop jumpers.)

    Please don't laugh if this is the dumbest question in the world, but for something like jumping, do you buy on pedigree alone? I mean, with dressage, it's *somewhat* easier: you look for/at movement. But yearlings shouldnt' be freejumped, so...

    Anyone get my conundrum here? What's your take on it? BTW, don't want to mention specifics. Can we keep this discussion hypothetical?

    The adventure has begun...
    KT
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

    Comment


    • #3
      Jumping ability is highly heritable!
      If the colt has correct conformation and good movement I would not hesitate at buying a jumper prospect as a foal/yearling. Has the dam produced any other foals? That is helpful also.
      BTW, you can free jump yearlings over little cavalettis if you do it only a FEW times and are careful. Zangersheide Stud routinely chases groups of foals and yearlings over LITTLE jumps to get an idea of their aptitude.

      Anne
      http://www.whitehedgefarm.com
      https://www.facebook.com/whitehedge.farm
      Cabalito https://www.facebook.com/CabalitoStallion
      Telynau Falcon (Section A Welsh stallion)

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Hi Whitehedge ...

        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Jumping ability is highly heritable!
        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        And thanks! This is very good to know. I also thank you for the correct useage of the word "heritable." (And here I thought I was so erudite ... HAHAHA)

        As far as jumping, well, I'm one of those people who believe in taking it sloooooooow, so I can wait until next year when he is two.

        Let me ask you, would you buy on bloodlines alone (providing no serious conformation faults)?

        The adventure has begun...
        KT
        "For God hates utterly
        The bray of bragging tongues."
        Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

        Comment


        • #5
          Unfortunately, there really isn't anything else you can judge a yearling by! So provided there are no noticeable conformational or temperamental flaws, one would have to base the purchase of a yearling jumper prospect on bloodlines.

          JenniferS
          Third Charm Event Team

          Comment


          • #6
            what a great question!
            Yes, I think you can have a good idea if you have the ability to see a young horse's natural athleticism. That might not tell you what sport he will be best at, but if the athleticism is there, and he is bred for the jumpers, I would feel very good about purchasing him. You won't know about his mind until it's time to ride him, but knowing what the mare and stallion dispositions were like, certainly will give you some idea of what to expect.
            I wish I could give you a clear list of characteristics to look for, but all I can say is it is a lot more that good conformation. In fact, the standard "well conformed" horse may or may not be an athlete at all. The true athlete naturally engages his hind end, has an easy, balanced movement that is both agile and light and yet powerful at the same time. Perhaps most importantly, he has a certain air of self confidence about him that is evident when he moves,and sets him a little apart, even if he is low in the social order of the herd.
            I think other breeders can find better words to describe what I am saying, but every successful breeder or buyer of young horses has an eye for the good ones at a young age. Maybe some of the other breeders will comment?
            ************************
            Reality is something you rise above -Liza Minnelli

            Comment


            • #7
              Lyrical, I think you've done a "lyrical" job at explaining the inexplicable. Anyway, Oldenburg Mom, I look at pedigree first. I don't even get as far as the barn to look at them until I've scrutinized it pretty well. But what I look for in the jumpers is a confident youngster with an inordinately powerful engine, well coupled, who uses at a young age his neck in such a way as to enhance his effectiveness in motion, one who is extremely comfortable with a lightened forehand, who is catlike in his movement, loaded like a spring. I want a very forward thinking and moving individual who I hope will hit the ground on the far side running and not look back. I'm looking also for extraordinary bravery and a certain amount of charisma. I don't think I'm doing a very good job trying to explain this ... please, somebody else hop in here.
              http://community.webshots.com/user/premiumoldenburg

              Comment


              • #8
                As you say, you CAN see it in a foal. I have a filly who is as graceful as a cat in her walk. She exudes confidence. She'll almost slink up to a fence (2 1/2 - 3 feet - what used to be a very large pen to keep my dogs and horses separate) and just flow over the fence and slink away. My same age colt would try to emulate her and walk up after her, hit he knees on the fence, stumble over it, half fall down and then skulk away looking around to see if anyone had seen his very poor attempt to imitate her. I can't wait until she's old enough to put in training. For now, I'm not TEACHING her to jump anything. I won't be able to keep her in a paddock or pasture if she finds out just how easy it is to jump out! BTW, she's bred to death for jumping. The colt was bred for dressage.

                Tranquility Farm
                We don't have many, but the ones we have are nice
                Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                Now apparently completely invisible!

                Comment


                • #9
                  oo Tiki your filly sounds LOVELY!

                  I would buy on bloodlines alone, BUT...I do know of one horse who's mother was a top hunter (TB), and his daddy was a jumping fool (holsteiner)...and that horse doesn't jump. Now, I have heard he's going to be a lovely dressage horse!

                  ________________________
                  *London*Hannah*Kirsche*
                  *Gryphon Bay & foal on the WAY!!!*
                  ________________________
                  *Hannah Bay*Tatabra Kirsche*
                  *Gryphon Bay & Amethyst Bay*

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think there is no doubt jumping ability is hereitary, interestingly, our stallion if turned loose in our indoor will jump whatever is in the arena, and so do the majority off his offspring, I was sent a tape of a filly of his who at a few days old when put in the outdoor proceeded to jump some poles on the ground with no prompting, over and over, they had to stop her. One of mine jumped over his mother when she was laying down, at 2 hours old, at 24 hours jumped 2 hay bales,and later when he was alittle older, put out in my indoor and first thing decided to go through a gymnastic that was set up, [fortunately low]and had us scrambling to set the poles down,he still kept jumping through it, over and over, both of my foals bred to be jumpers jump anything that is up in the arena, just like their dad and I hear from so many of the mare owners that theirs are the same way.
                    As to what to look for, I think everyone , paricularly Lyrical and Twinkletozzz did such a great job of expaining I can only add alittle bit, to me -yes the pedigree is a huge factor,the conformation, as well the athleticism, I watch them run and play, stride length, even at that age, the other thing I look for is the attitude, jumpers have to be tryers, they have to have the will to want to be good at their jobs, the will to suceed,and a competitive spirit, so I watch how they carry themselves, how they deal with things, I try to asess wether they have the necessary boldness and determination in them,
                    Good Luck---Nancy

                    Home of the Oldenburg Stallion Ironman
                    Home of Ironman: GOV, BWP, RPSI, CSHA, AWR, ISR Oldenburg, CWHBA, CSHA, CS, and PHR.
                    www.ironmanonline.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think that jumping ability is heritable, the same way "cow sense" is in certain cutting horse lines and speed is in certain racing lines.

                      Of course environment plays a role, as do training methods, but if you are specifically looking at weanlings and yearlings for this purpose, thats about all you have to go on!

                      I agree - great question!

                      "Spot"

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Well gee, folks. Thanks for all the input.

                        nsm & Tiki--- I'm amazed at these types of stories ... babies jumping everything in sight just because they loff it. And I've heard the "jumping Mama" type of story before. Any info on how this has translated into performance? I am even less experienced in jumping than I am in dressage (if that is possible) so anything you can pass on my way is helpful.

                        ALSO, and very important. WITHOUT TRYING TO CRITICIZE ANY ORGANIZATION, what's your take on some of the young futurity setups? They've got, apparently, quite demanding courses for 5 and 6 year olds. Again, this is not meant as any criticism of any organization, I just thought "older" is better when it comes to stressing their bodies.

                        As far as this baby goes, I've seen him romping in the pasture. And while I haven't seen him being a "jumping fool" (&lt;--meant affectionately) he does have ... hmmm ... a confidence I like. He has been turned out with another yearling, a visitor, who is larger than he is. And he (the one I'm looking to buy) has no problem standing up ...and taking the dominant position ... to the bigger guy ... in fact, I was surprise the bigger guy was such a wuss!!

                        Along those same lines his personality seems, well, rather "I am who I am and I don't care if you don't like me." Does that make sense? Or is KT just making stuff up?

                        He did clear-from pretty much a standstill-the dutch door in his stall, however. What's that? Three feet? That's good? Right?

                        The adventure has begun...
                        KT
                        "For God hates utterly
                        The bray of bragging tongues."
                        Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> In fact, the standard "well conformed" horse may or may not be an athlete at all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Lyrical ... you're right of course. Anyone ever hear of a horse called Seabiscuit?

                          The adventure has begun...
                          KT
                          "For God hates utterly
                          The bray of bragging tongues."
                          Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I can only go by my meager experience, but I did buy a long yearling jumper prospect based largely on pedigree (daddy Pikadero an international GP horse, grand-daddy Prinz Gaylord the same and known for producing willing jumpers), plus an excellent shoulder and compact frame. She did a little bit of free jumping for the video just so we could see what her attitude towards the fences was, and that was all.

                            And now, 6 1/2 years later:

                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            COTH Forums, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Left and Right of Horses.
                            Attached Files
                            "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              OMGiH.

                              To quote that scholar, hoopoe, "Well, I am just gobstopped."

                              Portia. Izzat YOU? OMGiH ... I am sooo IMPRESSED.

                              The adventure has begun...
                              KT
                              "For God hates utterly
                              The bray of bragging tongues."
                              Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I completely agree about jumping traits being heritable. A few years ago I had a yearling by Kalypso that I was chasing around a large area with a quarter horse. Both of them had very recently been gelded and they needed to exercise. After a couple of laps of this area, I could see the Kalypso gelding looking at the open back above a 4' wall in a run-in shed. I knew what he was going to do; he picked up a lovely organized canter and headed straight for the shed, clearing that opening in fine style. However, the little quarter horse behind him went right through it; it never occured to him to jump it. And last year a Graf Top II filly, out of a Kalypso mare, jumped out of her 4' paddock and strolled around until captured, and a week later left her mother and jumped in a pasture to join a herd of horses. We had to change her accomodations.
                                Mystic Owl Sporthorses
                                www.mysticowlsporthorses.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I had a Riverman filly a few years ago,her favorite pastime was jumping the stream in her paddock. She'd just canter a circle that included jumping the stream. Also had a Reno filly that jumped out of the field..look around then jumped back in with her mom.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    (Hi Janice! How the heck are ya?)

                                    The adventure has begun...
                                    KT
                                    "For God hates utterly
                                    The bray of bragging tongues."
                                    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Any comments about jumping at 5 and or 6?

                                      The adventure has begun...
                                      KT
                                      "For God hates utterly
                                      The bray of bragging tongues."
                                      Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        No, KT, that's the REAL Portia and Trainer Jo. But as long as we're showing off, here's the other new photo I have of them:

                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        COTH Forums, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Left and Right of Horses.
                                        Attached Files
                                        "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X