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What relationship between horses is this?

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  • What relationship between horses is this?

    Dust Commander is Bold Ruler x High Voltage. He is dam sire of Conquistador Cielo and several other performers. Stupendous is Bold Ruler x Magneto, full sister to High Voltage. Both dams are Ambiorix x Dynamo. Stupendous is the damsire of Prince Thatch and sire of some mares that Herr Butt used in breeding Hanoverian event horses.

    Are they considered 3/4 siblings? How is this relationship described? It actually seems closer than 3/4 siblings since all four grandparents are the same.

    Is this what is meant by brothers in blood?
    Last edited by vineyridge; Jan. 27, 2010, 05:02 PM.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

  • #2
    3/4 sibs

    Brothers in blood are two colts by the same sire out of full-sisters. (or - two colts out of one mare, and by two different sires that are full borthers.)
    "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin


    • #3
      Originally posted by ahf View Post
      3/4 sibs

      Brothers in blood are two colts by the same sire out of full-sisters. (or - two colts out of one mare, and by two different sires that are full borthers.)

      Didn't Viney actually describe two colts by the same sire and out of full sisters? Doesn't that make them brothers in blood?
      Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
      WWSD? (what would Suerte do?)


      • #4
        Originally Posted by stoicfish
        I have a 3/4 relative really close to me.

        I have one in my barn but I don't really refer to Sandro Hit x Donnerhall offspring as 3/4 relatives to SD
        So, what is the official terminology of the relationship between 2 horses that share 3 out of four common ancestors, with out saying "they share 3 out of four grand dam and sires"?
        I have never seen a standardized terminology on the relationships other than "full siblings".

        And for the OP's case, I guess you could compare it to the same man marring 2 sisters and the relationship between the resulting kids. It would also be interesting to see how much genetic variation there is between the kids.

        Actually that is a good way to evaluate how homogenous a stallion is in his traits by seeing how similar full siblings are but you would need more than two or three. I guess you could do ET on a couple of mares that have other offspring to compare to. That would save 130 foals being born to a stallion that that was inconsistent.


        • #5
          Interesting discussion. Not sure I know the correct answer either. I usually say "closely related because they share multiple sires and dam sires".

          For instance, I have 2 mares like that:

          Gold Luck - Pablo - Weltmeyer - Don Camillo

          and a

          Pablo - Gold Luck - Weltmeyer -Brentano
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          • Original Poster

            Just to make it clearer--Both Magneto and High Voltage are Ambiorix x Dynamo, and Bold Ruler is the sire of Dust Commander out of High Voltage and Stupendous out of Magneto. So you do have the same sire and full sisters.

            I've always thought that the example of Nasrullah and Royal Charger defined 3/4 siblings, but could be wrong. Nasrullah is Nearco x Mumtaz Begum; Royal Charger is Nearco x Sun Princess, daughter of Mumtaz Begum but by Solario. It might be that to be true 3/4 siblings, the mare has to be the same and the sires brothers out of the same mare but different sires. In any event, whichever is correct, 3 of the four grandparents have to be the same.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire


            • #7
              Interesting discussion. So if 2 colts are out of the same dam, but one is by a certain sire and the other is by the sire of that colt's sire, does that make them 3/4 siblings? Thanks!
              Quicksilver Farms, LLC
              "Welsh Hunter Ponies"
              Welsh Sec. B Stallions and
              Fancy Show Pony Prospects


              • #8
                They are "full brothers in blood".


                • #9
                  Really? Is that what it is called? Ponies involved are Pendock Masterpiece (Solway Master Bronze X Pendock Prudence) and Pendock Sir Percy (Lechlade Scarlet Pimpernel by Solway Master Bronze X Pendock Prudence) So they would be called "full brothers in blood"? Just making sure I understand correctly and thanks for the info!
                  Quicksilver Farms, LLC
                  "Welsh Hunter Ponies"
                  Welsh Sec. B Stallions and
                  Fancy Show Pony Prospects


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by quicksilverponies View Post
                    Really? Is that what it is called? Ponies involved are Pendock Masterpiece (Solway Master Bronze X Pendock Prudence) and Pendock Sir Percy (Lechlade Scarlet Pimpernel by Solway Master Bronze X Pendock Prudence) So they would be called "full brothers in blood"? Just making sure I understand correctly and thanks for the info!
                    By post was in reference to the horses in the original post.

                    The relationship you mentioned, same dam, sires are son and father, I've seen that more often than not referred to as 3/4 brothers... i.e this Derby winner, and this Champion Hurdle winner.
                    I've also the seen term 3/4 brothers used with horses that share 3 out 4 grand parents.


                    • #11
                      Oh thanks! Sorry I misunderstood - wanted to be clear - thanks again!
                      Quicksilver Farms, LLC
                      "Welsh Hunter Ponies"
                      Welsh Sec. B Stallions and
                      Fancy Show Pony Prospects


                      • #12
                        Is anybody else's head spinning, trying to keep that all straight?
                        Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ladybug Hill
                          Doesn't that make them brothers in blood?
                          That's the way I would understand it.
                          Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist