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Florencio - What kind of mare for him?

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  • Florencio - What kind of mare for him?

    Just curious.

    Thanks
    Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

  • #2
    Just imported one. Mother line is Accord 11/Ramiro. He is beautiful. Long legs. 4 yrs, almost 16.3. very modern, bay. He has a full 3 yr old brother chestnut w/ 4 whites. Email me at debs2600@aol.com if you want to see pictures I can email them to you.
    www.transitionsfarm.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Tough question!
      I looked up the breeding of the Florencio offspring that have passed the stallion licensing and were selected for the elite auctions in Germany, and considering that those are the top venues and are hand-selected, I thought that might be a fairly good way to make an educated guess. The frustrating thing is that he has been bred to seemingly quite different mare types. He has sired over 17 licensed sons and many record price foals at the auctions, including the 2007 filly Elfenschau (out of a DeNiro mare) who sold for 72,000 euros. One his sons is the stallion Fackeltanz (Florencio/Feinbrand/ Feiner Stern), who won Res CH at his licensing in Germany. His son First Flush, licensed in Verden and then sold to Norway, is out of a Brentano II mare. It’s hard to find pictures of the mares, but the few I found were quite different in type. His daughter Florenzio (who won the top mare at her GOV/MPT in 2008) is out of a Landadel line mare. She was a lovely mare with excellent hind leg usage and overall good exterior. Putting the dressage stallions on mares with some jumper blood such as Landadel or Silvio I, can potentially yield a lovely mover with a quicker hind leg - IMHO. I bred a Silvio I/Feiner Stern mare to Florencio. This mare is tall and has a well balanced exterior which is a bit more horizontal than the more modern uphill type, although she certainly has an adequate front and is a good mover with lots of suspension in her movement. Her canter is her best gait. The resultant colt was designated a stallion prospect at his inspection and is a super type. He's very tall, more uphill than his mom, a huge trot and a very balanced canter. The disposition is wonderful and I can't honestly find anything to fault. His head and neck are more beautiful than his mom's and he displays lots of elasticity and balance when playing in the field with his young stallion buddy. I think that his dam (17h) contributed the height as I've heard that Florencio offspring are not all necessarily tall.
      I don't know if any of this information helps you in any way, but I just wanted to relate that he has sired some very nice offspring with mares of quite different bloodlines.
      www.vermontwarmbloods.com

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        That is useful info! Thank you. It's good to hear he mixes so well with so many different types.
        Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

        Comment


        • #5
          In December I enquired about him and was told his semen is EVA + ? Can that be verified?
          GreenGate Stables
          http://ggstables.webs.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            He is EVA positive but the protocol is not too bad, particularly if you have your own farm. I have a Florencio x Jazz filly. The Jazz gave her a very quick hind leg.
            Roseknoll Sporthorses
            www.roseknoll.net

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
              He is EVA positive but the protocol is not too bad, particularly if you have your own farm. I have a Florencio x Jazz filly. The Jazz gave her a very quick hind leg.
              what's with you EVA+ folks. Don't breed to an EVA+ stallion. Do you folks just like to do it the hard way and spend $$$$? There are lots of stallions who are just as nice as Florencio who are EVA-.
              Discipline is the Bridge between Dreams and Accomplishments

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by feather river View Post
                what's with you EVA+ folks. Don't breed to an EVA+ stallion. Do you folks just like to do it the hard way and spend $$$$? There are lots of stallions who are just as nice as Florencio who are EVA-.
                I did not breed this filly; I bought her. She is one of the nicest horses I have had in 30 years and we anticipate she will be our next Grand Prix horse. I would happily have a barn full of Florencio offspring just like her.

                Also, anyone using frozen semen from Europe really should vaccinate their mares against EVA anyway. It is what, an extra $20 or so for the vax?
                Roseknoll Sporthorses
                www.roseknoll.net

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have used Florencio three times, all with very good success. My mares are vaccinated and dealing with EVA+ semen is a non-issue. But then I've also bred to Contango and a few other stallions that are positive.

                  My question is this - why would I narrow down my window of opportunities by being so closed-minded about EVA?
                  Siegi Belz
                  www.stalleuropa.com
                  2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                  Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
                    My question is this - why would I narrow down my window of opportunities by being so closed-minded about EVA?


                    FR, you are sounding mighty stuck in the past. EVA vaccine is cheap, the quarantine is no big deal and anyone breeding with imported semen ought to vaccinate for it. We've had this conversation before.
                    Mary Lou
                    http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                    https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                    Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      To follow up on the OP some, YL you said that the Jazz gave your filly a quick hind leg - do you think Florencio benefits from using an individual mare or line that has a quick hind leg? Siegi - what kinds of mares did you decide to use with Florencio?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, I first bred my Gelders mare to him and got Bardot SE (check out my website). Then I bred the filly YL mentioned, so that was my Jazz/Wanroij mare, and finally I bred my Veneziano/Wanroij mare for a colt, Enrico SE, who came in third at the Iron Spring foal keuring last September (where Bardot SE was top Adult Dressage horse).

                        The three mares are very different in type, however, they all have a powerful hind end and they are all 16.3 or better. In hindsight I would probably say that my Jazz mare was the safest bet given her conformation and gaits. She's a leggy, tall mare and so was her daughter by Florencio, last time I checked.

                        My Gelders mare has a short front leg, and her daughter Bardot SE could have a little bit more length there.

                        The surprise was the colt out of my half Trakehner mare, Rica Veneziana, because he had lots of bone and was clearly going to be more "substantial" than his mom.

                        In summary, I think Florencio gives a lot of good qualities to his kids, not the least of which is his good temperament. I played it safe as far as size and gaits were concerned, but he certainly added something to all of his kids.
                        Last edited by siegi b.; Jan. 26, 2010, 10:36 AM.
                        Siegi Belz
                        www.stalleuropa.com
                        2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                        Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We've had these 7 out of 3 different mares.

                          Out of our Hannelore (Hohenstein-Perser xx-Firnis):
                          *2006
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com.../details/01894

                          *2007 Fugazi
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com.../details/02741

                          *2008 Fly High (o/o Hohenstein-Perser xx-Firnis)
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com.../details/03136

                          *2009 Fire and Ice
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com.../details/03314

                          o/o our SPS Dune (Don Bosco-Archipel-Perser xx)

                          *2006
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com.../details/01895

                          *2008
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com.../details/03135

                          *2009
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com.../details/03324

                          And lastly o/o Hannelore's daughter Wakaluba (Warkant-Hohenstein-Perser xx):

                          *2009
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com.../details/03316

                          Overall I can say I've been thrilled with the typiness and overall conformation. Going by what offspring I've seen under saddle at preselections thus far I think you want to make sure the mare brings good movement with her. Fugazi has turned out rather short while all our others were on the taller side (16.2 and up). I appreciate his adding his uphill canter as well.
                          Last edited by Kareen; Jan. 26, 2010, 08:00 AM.
                          Froh zu sein bedarf es wenig...
                          http://www.germanhorseconnection.com
                          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Germa...m/237648984580

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Does he improve hind end conformation?
                            Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey Kareen !
                              Don't you forget my SPA "Mini" on your farm !

                              She is also by Florencio out of my former Prince Thatch xx mare. So also an intersting combination with the TB background. She is quite small but so is her halfsister, hence I do not know if this is Florencio's influence - dam was tall. But nevertheless she has enough frame and does not look small. She has three good gaits, nice hindend (Do not forget, that Florencio is out of a Weltmeyer dam, so I guess a lot of the good hindlegs come also from there.).
                              She is also very pretty with a nice face. At the moment we are now anciously waiting her Benetton Dream foal.
                              I am actually be needing to sell her due to personal reasons, but I still hold onto her sofar and have not advertised her and can not really part as I really like her a lot.
                              She can be seen on my homepage.
                              I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                              www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
                              2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by alexandra View Post
                                Hey Kareen !
                                Don't you forget my SPA "Mini" on your farm !

                                She is also by Florencio out of my former Prince Thatch xx mare. So also an intersting combination with the TB background. She is quite small but so is her halfsister, hence I do not know if this is Florencio's influence - dam was tall. But nevertheless she has enough frame and does not look small. She has three good gaits, nice hindend (Do not forget, that Florencio is out of a Weltmeyer dam, so I guess a lot of the good hindlegs come also from there.).
                                She is also very pretty with a nice face. At the moment we are now anciously waiting her Benetton Dream foal.
                                I am actually be needing to sell her due to personal reasons, but I still hold onto her sofar and have not advertised her and can not really part as I really like her a lot.
                                She can be seen on my homepage.
                                I would *love* to have her. Small does not bother me.
                                Roseknoll Sporthorses
                                www.roseknoll.net

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  YL - well if you want to ... as said sooner or later she has to leave (only for personal reasons :-( )
                                  I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
                                  www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
                                  2017: Lissaro - SPS Don Frederico - Prince Thatch and Finnigan - Sandro Hit - Rouletto

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Does Florencio cross well to Rubinstein lines? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rosa+canina2

                                    I am **thinking** about him for my mare.

                                    I can't decide who I want to use this year.
                                    Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Ok, so what does Florencio bring to the table reliably? Does the mare need to have length of leg as well as good gaits and size? Most of what I see is very typey.
                                      Thanks
                                      PennyG

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by TKR View Post
                                        Ok, so what does Florencio bring to the table reliably? Does the mare need to have length of leg as well as good gaits and size? Most of what I see is very typey.
                                        Thanks
                                        PennyG
                                        My observation is that he brings typiness, very good movement, and good temperament to the table. He does not reliably throw height - I know some breeders have referred to him as a pony maker, though my own Florencio is 16.3 at 3 and probably will grow another inch (she is out of a tall and leggy Jazz mare, though). Mine has three very, very good gaits and exceptional suspension. She also has a very sweet temperament.

                                        I do think Florencio improves the gaits, though my filly is out of a mare that is a consistent producer of very nice horses (including a Markel FEI 4 year old national champion). I don't really know how to respond when someone asks whether a horse needs a mare with good gaits as I would not breed any horse for dressage that does not have them. If you are asking whether he can improve on a mare in that regard generally, I do think he reliably does so.
                                        Roseknoll Sporthorses
                                        www.roseknoll.net

                                        Comment

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