• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

sporthorse TB sires

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • sporthorse TB sires

    does anyone know of any Thoroughbreds that are Sporthorse sires but also proven at the track or racehorse sires?I am trying to help out a friend who wants to breed a Thoroughbred mare.She wants to use the foal that results as an event prospect, (the mare has raced but didn't do a whole lot and she has decent conformation)...So far my friend is looking into Songandaprayer,and The White Fox..does anyone know anything about those sires?

  • #2
    Wouldnt some of Denny Emerson's stallions fall into that category? I seem to recall one or maybe more of his stallions had a very respectable race career before standing at stud for Sport Horses as well ...

    True Colours Farm on Facebook


    • #3
      Does she want a registered TB foal? If so the breeding will have to be live cover. If she wants LC it helps to know what part of the country she is looking in.
      It is also helpful to know something about what tempement she is willing to deal with. This is a Bold Ruler/Nasrullah line question. The BRs tend to be very good athletes......bold and a good jump.........but more forward and sensitive...where some other bloodlines are not as "hot". Alydar lines in general put a super jump on a horse. Pleasant Colony lines put a good jump with a more level head on a horse.
      Providence Farm


      • #4
        Gaaah, I had a nice long post and it got "eaten"
        Short version: I don't like SongAndAPrayer on paper. Raise A Native is a mixed blessing of jump talent (a la Alydar) and front leg weakness issues......so I don't like seeing the RAN linebred. SOME of the Mr P lines are better than others for better/stronger front legs but Unbridleds Song is not one of them.
        The White Fox: have not seen him move so can't judge him on that. For sporthhorses his damside is strong. His sire side we had old Mr. P and his dicey legs again but fortunately this horse is not LINE bred to RAN......so just one in there is much better. Pioneering also has the advantage of having Crimson Satan on his damline....CS is a good line for soundness improvement. Racing success and sporthorse ability are often mutually exclusive........so on pedigree for the 2 you mentioned I would take The White Fox.
        I would go with neither if the mare in question is from RAN lines though. In that case look elsewhere all together.
        Providence Farm


        • #5
          The mare needs to be matched as much as finding a stallion that meets your criteria. I'm not sure why the stallion needs a race record, but that is certainly up to the owner. So, more information about the mare would be a good place to start.


          • #6
            Originally posted by TKR View Post
            The mare needs to be matched as much as finding a stallion that meets your criteria. I'm not sure why the stallion needs a race record, but that is certainly up to the owner. So, more information about the mare would be a good place to start.
            Yes, and I think SongandaPrayer's stud fee is upwards of $10,000. The White Fox is less expensive but still probably higher than most Sporthorse stallions.
            If producing a racing prospect is the criteria then perhaps ask in the Racing forum?
            Fan of Sea Accounts


            • #7
              For horses being both race and sport proven:mostly what I know are PA area horses.
              Innkeeper http://www.pedigreequery.com/innkeeper
              comes to mind and Roanoke http://www.pedigreequery.com/roanoke2
              (who was in PA but moved to the midwest). Sir Juli Go http://www.pedigreequery.com/sir+juli+go
              was a successful race horse turned riding horse/eventer. Harry The Hat http://www.pedigreequery.com/harry+the+hat
              produces both runners and eventers.
              Rock Point http://www.pedigreequery.com/rock+point
              is/was......I think he might be retired now.
              Providence Farm


              • #8
                I work at the thoroughbred sales every year, and I have handled quite a few songandaprayer foals. They are a bit crazy in the head and most of them do not have the straightest legs. They are usually flashy, but a lot of them are pretty fine boned as well! If you want an eventing stallion, why not check out Sea Accounts

                He's well bred and proven in eventing.


                • #9
                  I don't know about his success at the track, but A Fine Romance is a favourite with breeders on this board and has produced performance sport horses.
                  Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


                  • #10
                    From a thread posted on the Racing forum, the OP's friend has some cash to spend - she was (is?) interested in Unbridled's Song... so the 10k+ fee doesn't appear to be an issue

                    Some of the TB stallions on my shortlist are (for eventers):

                    A Fine Romance
                    Yellow Creek
                    Coconut Grove
                    Salute The Truth
                    Triple Twist

                    If I was to be shopping in the same price range as the OP's friend and looking at racing sires who crossover nicely into the eventing worls, well.... The list would be longer


                    • #11
                      What about Comet Shine: http://www.victoryrose.com/html/cometsh.html
                      or Triple Twist: http://www.pedigreequery.com/triple+twist
                      Redbud Ranch
                      Check us out on FB


                      • #12
                        [quote=AppJumpr08;4582796]From a thread posted on the Racing forum, the OP's friend has some cash to spend - she was (is?) interested in Unbridled's Song... so the 10k+ fee doesn't appear to be an issue


                        Umm, big difference between Songandaprayer and Unbridleds Song. Songandaprayer's stud fee was 22k last yr. and Unbridled's Song was 150k. I'd like to know if the OP's friend truly knows this, since I can't imagine anyone who had that kind of money to breed would even mention The White Fox in the same breath. I really don't mean that offensively, but there's just no comparison.
                        "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George


                        • #13
                          Ok, I should have looked at their thread on the racing forum b4 I even commented here. If 8bells and her "friend" are really serious (which I doubt), I'm going to need them to contact me with full names so I can submit them for the next round of Darwin awards.
                          "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George


                          • #14
                            If the OP is serious there IS the whole issue of studfees. Not too many race stallions stand at sporthorse fees. A few do.......but not many. And likely not your grade 1 winners/producers.
                            It looks like Songandaprayer is currently at 12,500........but still well past what an eventer stallion will go for. His right front knee does not look so hot either
                            The White Fox
                            is standing at 3,500........which will get you a TOP proven sporthorse stallion. For 3,500 you don't even get a confo photo on their site though......

                            Personally if I was shopping with a 5 figure budget for a TB stallion I would take a Pleasant Colony son in the 10K range (though Roanoke stood for about 5K) and Not For Love at 20K!
                            Last edited by camohn; Dec. 28, 2009, 08:13 PM.
                            Providence Farm


                            • #15
                              Agreeing with what everyone has said about the need to match the mare to the stallion, as well as needing to know the mare's actual pedigree & conformational strengthes & weaknesses to make good suggestions, etc.

                              Like others, I'm not sure why the stallion needs to have had a race record, but thanks to camohn, for mentioning our stallion, Sir Juli Go, who proved his soundness on the track with 135 starts, an extremely rare feat in modern racing.

                              Also, while I have not personally seen The White Fox, I have worked with one of his 2009 babies, and am very impressed with this colt in person, both by his conformation & temperament (sorry I can't help with a picture of the stallion himself - the best I can do is a picture of one of his sons):


                              If you cruise the Xanthus Farm website, you'll also find a picture of the white colt's dam.

                              One other suggestion, if a succesful racehorse is a criteria for picking the sire - for an event horse, might I suggest you also look for a horse who had or whose progeny have had success in races over a mile? You probably don't want a successful sprinter for this particular sport.
                              Hidden Echo Farm, Carlisle, PA -- home of JC palomino sire Canadian Kid (1990 - 2013) & AQHA sire Lark's Favorite, son of Rugged Lark.


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by KBEquine View Post

                                One other suggestion, if a succesful racehorse is a criteria for picking the sire - for an event horse, might I suggest you also look for a horse who had or whose progeny have had success in races over a mile? You probably don't want a successful sprinter for this particular sport.
                                Also a good point. So many of the current TBs are bred for dirt sprints. Your sporthorses are conformationally better suited to the distance runner types. Turf horses are better yet.........
                                I had one little TB mare that was a super jumper. She was usually mistaken for a QH. She was an exception though......generally that is not the ideal. She was a Hoist The Flag bred....and lived up to both the good and the bad that bloodline is known for: athletic and not exactly a sweetheart.
                                Providence Farm


                                • #17
                                  Songandaprayer was not, himself, particularly sturdy. Not someone I'd consider seriously as an eventing sire.

                                  Is your friend dead set on having 100% Thoroughbred? Not that there's a thing in the world wrong with that, but there are a lot of proven eventing sires who aren't full-blooded TB.


                                  • #18
                                    A few to consider who are good racers themselves and would appear to have promise as sport horse sires.

                                    1) Roanoke, who has sired successful chasers and eventers. Big guy. In Illinois
                                    2) Northern Spur, Eclipse winner and turf specialist, but throws small. In New York
                                    3) French Seventyfive in Oklahoma. Does not produce particularly good racers, but for generational breeding brings a lot to the table.
                                    4) Cetawayo in Pennsylvania. Just started on his stud career, so doesn't have a lot on the ground. Lovely pedigree. And very sturdy.
                                    5) Siphon--better for sport than racing, but has produced gorgeous get and has a lovely pedigree.
                                    6) Earth Colony. Big guy. Another Pleasant Colony son. Primarily marketed for sport.
                                    7) Not For Love. Mr. P son, lovely horse. Maryland
                                    8) For a large stud fee, I'd look at Tiznow. He's a successful sire and is one of the few Man O'War studs standing.
                                    9) Aggadan in Louisiana. Son of Carnivalay. 42 starts, winner. Started his stud career in 2007.
                                    10) A son of Cox's Ridge. Out of Place stands at Claiborne in Kentucky. He has an almost perfect sport horse pedigree. There are many other Cox's Ridge sons standing all over North America.
                                    11) Ameri Valay. Son of Carnivalay. Used to be in Maryland, now in Pennsylvania. Sire of Magic Weissner.
                                    12) A couple of Theatrical sons to look at are Grand Reserve in Virginia and Hap in Indiana. Shakespeare is in Florida for a much higher stud fee, and is La Troienne tail female. If you have a mare who traces back to her, that would be a nice mating. But he seems to have been very fragile, looking at his race record. If the mare doesn't trace to La Troienne, I prefer the dam lines of the other two.
                                    13) Roberto was an excellent sire of sires and a very good sport horse line. We are now down to his grandsons in the US except for Dynaformer.
                                    There are lots more less popular stallions with pedigrees that are "better" for sport, turf and chasing than the ones who have been bred for dirt sprints, which are the dominant form of US racing today. Camohn has recommended some very nice older sires like Rock Point.

                                    14) For pure sport, look at Castle Cove and Fun and Fancy Free, both in Virginia. And A Fine Romance in Ontario. And Triple Twist in West Virginia. None of these are used for racing. Castle Cove is Teddy sire line and is out of the very great Agnes dam line. However, his sire line does tend to produce crooked front legs.
                                    Also consider Noble Houston, Loyal Tendencies in Georgia and Cor Magnifique, also in Georgia. Mystic Replica and Boy Done Good (Salute the Truth) are full TBs who come from eventing lines.
                                    Last edited by vineyridge; Dec. 30, 2009, 02:26 PM.
                                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                    Thread killer Extraordinaire


                                    • #19
                                      I may be confused: If the OP wants a race bred TB to use for eventing why not just purchase a well bred OTTB so you know what you're paying for and save yourself a gazillion dollars and even more uncertainty on a stud fee/mare care/raising a foal to riding age/breaking etc?


                                      • #20
                                        Clivers, I'd take that even further and suggest that the OP find an OTTB for a song and make it into the eventer she wants.

                                        Viney, interested in your comments about the Out of Place get. I have one of his granddaughters, by Orville n Wilburs, and I'm thrilled with her. She's simply perfect! Correct, classy, sensible (but I think she got that from her mama who is by Caller I.D. (Phone Trick) out of a Star de Naskra mare). Actually, dam (The Jolly) is in training as an eventer with our EventerJ.

                                        Maybe Out of Place throws good temperament as well. My filly is exceptionally classy and I've attributed that to her dam who, out of the hundreds I've worked with on the track, I wanted to keep: that's how exceptional she is.