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Welsh pony breeders- which would you choose?

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  • Welsh pony breeders- which would you choose?

    We are selling our pony possibly and in the deal the buyers are trading either a small or medium pony to me. I breed on occasion as a hobby, but want to breed quality. I have a super nice Dutch broodmare with excellent bloodlines and would like to have a super nice welsh pony broodmare. If the deal moves forward, I will have two to choose from. Both are said to have excellent movement, jumps, conformation and dispositions. So, the differences are size, color (doesn't really matter), age, and bloodlines. So, all you experts, please look at the information below and tell me which you would pick and why. Keep in mind that it will be used as a riding pony for awhile and bred a few years down the road...

    1. Grey mare, 13.1 hands. She is by Telynau Royal Charter and is 8 years old. She is registered, section B.

    2. Bay mare, 11.3 hands. She is out of Springbourne Crista and by Bengad Lynden. She is only 3 and registered section A.

    Since you all know about bloodlines, I would appreciate any input, advice, sizes to breed them to. I would like to produce pony hunters but do want to produce full welsh ponies with great bloodlines that also could be shown at the welsh shows, on the line, etc... Thanks so much!!!!!
    www.cameronoaks.com

  • #2
    My humble opinion, of course:

    The Charter mare 100%!!!! First of all, I think Charter is wonderful. Eyarth Rio, Charter's sire, has proven himself to be a highly influential sire in both the UK and now over here (I am sure Rideagoldenpony can elaborate for me here). His sons and daughters have continued passing on his great quality. Charter himself has won numerous awards on his own individual excellence as well as his offspring's, both full and half-welsh. You can check the WPCSA website for his stats. His temperment is outstanding (children ride him), and he seems to pass that along pretty consistently. Charter's get have done well in welsh shows and are now proving themselves to be worthy in the hunter ring too. You can see more about him at www.farmorefarms.com and do contact Tammy if you have any questions on Charter or his offspring...she is a great person and really does her homework.

    Additionally, you said you wanted to produce purebreds. Size-wise, I think you are better off trying to produce medium ponies than smalls for a few reasons: 1) You have to have a small enough jock to ride a small and train it 2) Marketablity 3) You have lots of nice stallions to choose from to produce mediums (there are nice sec A's too but you have to be careful to choose lines that have the right movement for hunters if that is the direction you want to focus on).

    I have two Section B mares in my program, and I aim for nice size mediums with them. One of my mares throws smaller babies, so I have to breed up. Be sure to look back in the pedigree of the dam also for size and do the same with any stallion you choose to breed her too. Good luck!
    http://summerwoodwelsh.com
    Summerwood Farm Welsh Ponies~
    http://www.facebook.com/Summerwoodfarmwelshponies

    Comment


    • #3
      Agree 100% with Summerwood.
      www.DaventryEquestrian.com
      Home of Oldenburg, Westphalian & RPSI approved pony stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
      Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness www.EquineAppraisers.com

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      • #4
        Def. the Charter mare!! Super stallion!
        Section A's are adorable but not easy to find riders or hunter type stallions for.
        http://www.whitehedgefarm.com
        https://www.facebook.com/whitehedge.farm
        Cabalito https://www.facebook.com/CabalitoStallion
        Telynau Falcon (Section A Welsh stallion)

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        • #5
          That's an EASY choice! The Charter mare!

          Now, post pictures when you get her!

          Charter is by Eyarth Rio. Rio is a son of Eyarth Zsa Zsa, hands down one of the greatest producing, and most influential mares in the UK. She is the dam of Eyarth Beau Geste, also, who is the sire of Mardi Gras, among many other fabulous champions. Zsa Zsa without a doubt changed the face of the Welsh Pony in the UK, and we see her influence in the US through Charter, Anthem, Mardi Gras, and their offspring -- and I have her last son, who I will use on a couple of mares in 2010.

          If you haven't guessed by now, she's a mare I'm pretty enthusiastic about. Her foals were amazing, and I was able to see her in the flesh in 2004. A truly fabulous mare. She's gone now, but has left quite the legacy behind her.

          ETA: *Springborne Christa came on the same import load as my *Holyoake Anastasia, and showed for a few seasons (and did very well). *Bengad Lynden belongs to the same breeder. That is VERY NICE Section A breeding, and should be a VERY NICE pony, but the smaller ponies are a LOT harder to sell, and something bigger and by Charter IS going to be more valuable.
          Family Partners Welsh Ponies - Home of Section B Welsh stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras LOM/AOE http://www.welshponies.com
          Click here to buy: A Guide To In Hand Showing of Your Welsh Pony

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            See...I am glad I asked. I tend to go for that "cuteness" factor and that small definitely has it! But, you guys have brought up some great points- keep 'em coming!
            www.cameronoaks.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Definately the pony behind door number 1!!
              www.midatlanticeq.com
              Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
              November 11-13, 2016

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              • Original Poster

                #8
                This proves that I know NOTHING! :-) I was definitely leaning towards the small because she is sooooo darn cute and only three. But, from a breeding standpoint, I knew I could count on you guys to lead me in the right direction! We are a ways off from doing anything- they still have to try my pony! :-) But, he is pretty darn awesome...
                www.cameronoaks.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Section B for numerous reasons.
                  Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Can you guys tell me the differences between Section A and Section B (just for my education...)
                    www.cameronoaks.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ponylover2008 View Post
                      Can you guys tell me the differences between Section A and Section B (just for my education...)
                      http://www.wpcs.uk.com/ponies/sectionab.html

                      it's the best wording of it

                      best
                      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Perfect- thanks! So, if we have a full welsh imported from the Netherlands but he is 14.2, he would be neither type above? On his passport, he is listed as type "k"???
                        www.cameronoaks.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ponylover2008 View Post
                          Perfect- thanks! So, if we have a full welsh imported from the Netherlands but he is 14.2, he would be neither type above? On his passport, he is listed as type "k"???
                          K can mean one of two things in Europe,

                          partbred or simply "gelding" as geldings are not shown in breeding classes there....

                          so there is no "aged gelding halter" classes

                          they are only for intact breeding animals be they male or female...

                          now Partbred does not have the dirty connotations it does here...I have seen the K's called in translations "netherlands welsh riding pony"...so it's not something shabby

                          best
                          Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                          I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tamara in TN
                            K can mean one of two things in Europe,

                            partbred or simply "gelding" as geldings are not shown in breeding classes there....

                            so there is no "aged gelding halter" classes

                            they are only for intact breeding animals be they male or female...

                            now Partbred does not have the dirty connotations it does here...I have seen the K's called in translations "netherlands welsh riding pony"...so it's not something shabby

                            best
                            And to add to that, the Welsh Pony & Cob will not recognize the "Section K" here saying it's a crossbred only.
                            Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              but it also depends on what you want to breed for. welsh type or hunter type. I do like the Charter ponies alot and i think they do really really well in the hunter ring but if you're breeding for welsh TYPE...the section A could be a great investment also.

                              It depends on where you want to show and whos showing it. if you're doing the hunter circuit; id go for the charter mare. if you want to do the welsh circuit; the A could most likely do just as well and be an ADORABLE kids pony too!

                              Before jumping to any conclusions because the medium is by Charter i'd want to see confo/photos before making any decision. the A could be of better quality and better type to the breed standard.

                              Just because the pony is by by Charter doesn't always mean its a steal. id like to evaluate both

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by VirginiaBred View Post
                                And to add to that, the Welsh Pony & Cob will not recognize the "Section K" here saying it's a crossbred only.

                                well, there are also people who import ponies from Europe and never bother to register them here...

                                what was the name of the world champion driving pony? Bouncer something or other?? he had no USA papers at all...

                                best
                                Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by farmgirl88 View Post
                                  but it also depends on what you want to breed for. welsh type or hunter type. I do like the Charter ponies alot and i think they do really really well in the hunter ring but if you're breeding for welsh TYPE...the section A could be a great investment also.
                                  I beg to differ! Telynau Royal Charter and his offspring do more than hold their own in the show ring at the American Welsh Shows. He's as typey as they come for a Section B!! While I agree that one would need to see both ponies to evaluate what they are really worth, etc., a typey pony is a typey pony, regardless of the Section of Welsh it is. I also know the bloodlines of the Section A well and am sure that is likely a typey pony too. But, personally speaking, even if the pony WAS being purchased for the WPCSA Welsh Show Circuit, there will likely be much more opportunity in performance for a 13.1 Section B than an 11.3 HH Section A. jmho
                                  www.DaventryEquestrian.com
                                  Home of Oldenburg, Westphalian & RPSI approved pony stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
                                  Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness www.EquineAppraisers.com

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    They are both typey.... great conformation. I will post pictures of them later...if anything even comes out of this. It is so much in the beginning stages right now - I was just trying to educate myself in case something does happen. I want to make an educated decision. Both are very nice ponies, great movement, great minds, good movements and the Charter pony has an incredible jump. The little one is just beginning to jump, but shows promise to have a "10" jump, as well. I would want to focus primarily on breeding for the pony hunter rings, but I love the typey welsh look as well.
                                    www.cameronoaks.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by ponylover2008 View Post
                                      Perfect- thanks! So, if we have a full welsh imported from the Netherlands but he is 14.2, he would be neither type above? On his passport, he is listed as type "k"???
                                      In the Netherlands, the K is indeed a WElsh Registry, but as others have said--it is not recognized here in US.
                                      My stallion - Empire's Power is a Welsh K. As is the famous large pony Emerson. (who is my stallion's sire's full brother - or in non proper terms-- my stallion's uncle)

                                      Please PM me with the breeding of your pony.
                                      Windswept Stables-Specializing in Ponies
                                      Sales, Breaking,Training,Showing, Stud Service

                                      Home of 2008 Sire of Year Reserve Champion
                                      Pony Hunter Breeding - Empires Power

                                      www.EmpiresPower.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        CHARTER!!! I am on my 5th one and yet again she will be a winner. You can see them all on my website here: http://huntridgefarms.com/OurPonies2.html.

                                        Funny thing is that my best hunter pony, Farmore Fancy Footwork, dam is *Telynau Ballerina, won virtually everytime out at the Welsh shows. He exuded Welsh type. He sold back East as an A circuit hunter pony.

                                        I can't imagine buying an 11.3 hand Section A over a well bred 13.1 B when aiming for the hunter ring.

                                        What is the name of the mare you are getting? I bet I know her. 2001 is one of his first foal crops.

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