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Thoroughbred stallions

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  • Thoroughbred stallions

    I just finished reading an article from the Holsteiner Spring 2009 issue. It is titled "Get to Know the Stallions." The three breeders who were interviewed for the story all say we need to find thoroughbred stallions for the Holsteiner Verband. However they are afraid that breeders will not breed their best mares to a Thoroughbred and this needs to change. We have some wonderful TB stallions here and I wonder how many breeding they get? Also what is the quality of the mares being bred to them? If you own a TB Stallion, I would love to hear some input. Thanks

  • #2
    I have a question reguarding this. Does the TB stallion have to have gone through approvals with the registry? Or if the stallion is JC reg, and the foal then is quality enough to pass approvals, will it be eligible for full breed approvals?

    I've been having trouble trying to figure this out with a few registries. If you have a non-full TB mare that's approved for breeding with a registry, and breed it to a JC stallion, will it's offspring eventually be eligible for breeding with full books in that registry. I know it varies from registry to registry, but I've been looking and havin a hard time getting a straight forward answer.
    ---------------------------

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    • #3
      Coconut Grove also comes to mind, but there aren't very many.
      Trinity Hill Farm

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      • #4
        Coconut Grove is licensed by most, if not all, of the WB registries. I think A Fine Romance is licensed by some as well.

        Comment


        • #5
          With the AHS now allowing TB mares into the Main studbook, it will be possible to have stallions approved in the future with a large % of blood coming from the damside. It will be interesting to see if they allow that to happen. Do any of the registries allow TBs to be stallion mothers?

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          • #6
            Also Fine Romance, full TB, who is in eastern in Canada. I believe has several registry approvals...
            He is a Canadian Sport Horse Gold level...the top.
            Martha
            Breeder of Quality and Colour
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            • #7
              My TB stallion - Guaranteed Gold - is CSHA approved at the Bronze Premium level through his performance results in eventing

              The WB mares that have been bred to him in the past, opt for different registry requirements / criteria / rules

              I know a client in MI that bred several Trakehner mares to him, get part registry on the colts and the fillies can get full Trakehner Main Mare Book papers on the fillies once they turn 3 years of age and get inspected and approved

              The AWS and AWR allow the foals to get full papers, but I believe its once only for an un-approved stallion

              If a CWHBA mare is bred to him the foal gets full CWHBA papers

              Do Hanoverian / Holsteiner / RPSI / SWANA / Oldenburg / etc give out COP's on the foals by unapproved / uninspected stallions? Is that how it works? And then do they stand on their own merits when they get inspected as 3+ year olds? Or are they not able to go through the inspection process at all as the sire was unapproved?
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              • #8
                I think the AHS will give them a COP if they are out of an approved Hanoverian mare, but they are not eligible for inspection.

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                • #9
                  Thank you to pintopower and tuckawayfarm for mentioning A Fine Romance.

                  Yes, he is one of only a handful of Gold Premium Canadian Sport Horse stallions.
                  Gold Premium is the highest level (Bronze, Silver, Gold), and is based on performance.
                  and he is one of only a few Thoroughbred stallions who are approved ISR/OldNA.

                  Each registry has its own rules, but with the CSHA the horse is normally inspected as a young horse (3) and then has until he is six to achieve his performance credentials to earn his Bronze Premium. The stallion is able to advance in standing through his own performance and/or that of his offspring.

                  With ISR/Old NA, he was inspected and was approved based on the inspection and his performance credentials.
                  A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

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                  • #10
                    Do Hanoverian / Holsteiner / RPSI / SWANA / Oldenburg / etc give out COP's on the foals by unapproved / uninspected stallions?
                    RPSI will give them Book II papers (essentially a COP) and a half brand. I believe that ISR/Old NA will give them ISR papers & the ISR brand.

                    I have a Hessen mare of mostly Holsteiner lines bred to Jones Hall xx for '10 & I could not be more excited about that foal!

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                    • #11
                      Was Coconut Grove licensed based on performance alone, or did he attend a stallion test too?

                      I was also thinking that Sea Accounts was the only TB approved by attending the 100 day stallion test. (Very rare in this country)
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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Thoroughbred Stallions

                        Fred,
                        Thanks for clarifying AFR's credentials. I saw him at Hilltop and hoped he was getting a lot of breedings. Which brings me back to my original point. How many breedings does he get a year and are people breeding their best mares to him?

                        True Colors, the same questions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That song and dance keeps re-surfacing, but "who" is really looking for that mystical Thoroughbred and do "they" just think he will appear or fall out of the sky? There are alot of really good Thoroughbred stallions out there that could be incorporated into a sporthorse program, but I doubt that will happen. Very unfortunate.
                          PennyG

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                          • #14
                            Well, Triple Twist should be one that the WB Registries would like. He's got the jump, rideability, temperament and pedigree for sure. Don't know about movement on the flat. Although it seems with mares, they don't give a flip about pedigree, but surely for stallions that must be a consideration. Or is it?
                            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                            Thread killer Extraordinaire

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                            • #15
                              True Colors, the same questions.
                              Well - I BELIEVE so from what I am seeing and hearing ...

                              The Tannenwald Trakehner breeder bred 2 of her foundation mares to Guaranteed Gold 2 years in a row and the filly they intend to take to her inspection next year as a 3 year old to see if she would be the first dilute Trakehner accepted into the MMB

                              Another breeder out west bred her imported Elite Hanoverian mare by Weltemeyer to him instead of a Hanoverian stallion which she had traditionally bred her to

                              We get imported SWANA mares bred to him and then an AWS and AWR mare by Galoubet, a SF mare by Olisco, a retired Open Jumper mare imported from Europe, etc being bred to him as well, so yes - I would believe that breeders are breeding top mares to him for sure

                              As far as numbers, he is generally getting in the 30-45 range per year and that would be a combination of TB, WB (of various registries), Arabian, AQHA, APHA, Morgan, Draft, pony, etc mares and I would say most of those MO's are looking for hunter and eventing babies predominantly, with the occassional dressage and jumper hopeful thrown in as well. And WP and HUS prospects for the AQHA and APHA crowd ...

                              Would anyone have a clue how many WB mares specifically a highly credible TB stallion like Coconut Grove would get on an annual basis?
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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Thoroughbred stallions

                                Hi True colors,
                                Thanks for the honest answers. Out of curiosity, how many people do you think are breeding to your boy because of his color vs his abilities? And please do not take offense to that question, because I am not in any way trying to insult you or your stallion. I just know that with some people color is a major factor in stallion picks.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by rocksolid View Post
                                  Hi True colors,
                                  Thanks for the honest answers. Out of curiosity, how many people do you think are breeding to your boy because of his color vs his abilities? And please do not take offense to that question, because I am not in any way trying to insult you or your stallion. I just know that with some people color is a major factor in stallion picks.
                                  I'll be shocked if True Colors says anyone said, "I picked your stallion based on color first and foremost."

                                  My hunch is even if they were basing a decision on color I doubt they would admit it to anyone.
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                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    thoroughbred Stallions

                                    Hi trottrotpumpkin,
                                    You would be surprised at how people pick their stallions. One lady would bring a vcr and tv into the barn with the mares and play the stallion videos. When a mare reacted to a stallion on the video, that is the one the mare would be bred to. She didn't tell everyone this but she confided in a few of us. She figured that this was close to the way nature intended. So picking a stallion based on color isn't to much of a fairy tale.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Thanks for the honest answers. Out of curiosity, how many people do you think are breeding to your boy because of his color vs his abilities? And please do not take offense to that question, because I am not in any way trying to insult you or your stallion.
                                      and:

                                      I'll be shocked if True Colors says anyone said, "I picked your stallion based on color first and foremost."
                                      Yeah - I honestly dont know if there is an answer to that one that describes everyone's decisions right across the board, really and truly!

                                      I get a lot of comments like "I'd love Faux Finish and Nightlight (2 of his daughters) even if they were plain bay or chestnut" and "their colour is merely a very nice icing on the cake"

                                      I know that a lot of people were very interested in breeding to his palomino & white son - Remember My Name - even though there was only a 50% chance of the dilute colour being passed on, so I THINK the type of stallion they are, and the foals they are putting on the ground, and the usual temperament / type / movement / conformation appears to be the first criteria they are using

                                      I really believe that the fact that he pretties up and refines coarser and heavier mares, and adds substance, body and height to smaller and finer mares is probably the #1 reason MO's appear to be breeding to him and the fact that they always wanted a palomino or buckskin baby goes part and parcel with that as well

                                      I guess I am in the same sort of position with one of his daughter's - the Faux Finish mare. While I will breed her to predominantly WB stallions, I also want a few TB babies on the ground out of her, but I truly cannot find any that I would mortgage my soul to have a baby from, except for Coconut Grove and probably Noble Houston and Triple Twist I believe would be right up there as well, if only he was closer and once I saw some movement footage and a conformation shot of him. Other than race bred stallions with horrific stud fees, I honestly cannot say there are any other TB stallions that I would really covet a baby from, that are within a reasonable distance - shipping wise - to get her live covered

                                      Does that sort of answer it??!
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                                      • #20
                                        I don't think Innkeeper has been mentioned thus far...approved OldNA/ISR
                                        http://enavantstud.com/innkeeper.html
                                        http://www.selahwaysporthorses.com/

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