• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

American Bred

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • American Bred

    I don't want to start controversy but I have been interested in understanding this concept....

    Does breeding a european bred mare (all parents from europe) to a european stallion (the new age of frozen semen) in the United States, constitute American breeding?

    We strive for American bred and the prestige when our horses are noticed overseas but are we really breeding American bred horses or just "european" horses on American soil.

  • #2
    IMHO, the breeder, and therefore the country of breeding, is the one who makes the breeding decision, regardless of the breed or country of origin of the horse. So, if an American breeds 2 European born horses, and the American was the one making the breeding decision, then s/he is the breeder and the resulting foal is bred by an American.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!

    Comment


    • #3
      If someone from Holland purchases & imports a Begium Warmblood registered mare and breeds that mare to a Holsteiner stallion standing in Germany, you can bet your booties that the foal will be registered KWPN and called a Dutch Warmblood.

      I register all my foals Canadian Warmblood, regardless of where their parents originated. It is much the same as human citizenship - my parents may both be from Europe, but my birth certificate says that I am Canadian.
      Sentinel Hill Farm
      Home of VDL Windsor H

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe that all horses bred in America are American bred. My Hanoverian stallion's sire and dam were both imported from Germany, but I chose the match, the mare was here when bred, so he is an American bred horse.

        I am VERY proud to have bred both of my stallions, and one of their moms. In 2005, they each had a 4th place foal (colt & filly) in the open classes at Dressage at Devon. It is rare for any American bred stallion to sire a youngster that places at Devon, so that to me is especially thrilling.

        Comment


        • #5
          My husband handled our homebred mare Able Spirit to the Res. Ch. at Dressage at Devon. Her sire Abundance came to the US as a weanling in 1965, twenty years before US stallion testing and ten years before the AHS began. All of his foals are American, because they were conceived and born here.
          Anne
          -------
          "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

          Comment


          • #6
            Someone answer me this question --- why is it so important to so many posting on this board to stamp the label "American" on their horses?

            Should we start calling our German shepherds American shepherds?

            If a horse has parents of Dutch lineage, why not call it Dutch? Is that a bad thing?

            I just don't understand this pointless argument.............

            Comment


            • #7
              maybe we could have some classes like dog shows do called bred by exhibitor in the in hand section and or american bred class for warmbloods best bred in american class something like that to showcase our horses we are breeding here

              Comment


              • #8
                I am having trouble getting the correct quotes to come up, so bear with me...

                Why is it so important to some people to label their horses 'American'?
                For me, it acknowledges that the horse was born and bred here in the US. Ours are of European descent, but I live in PA, not Hannover or Oldenburg, so why label them as such? It is a _choice_ to go with any registry with your breeding stock.

                Just like someone who is breeding Dutch/OLD/Han horses, it is a matter of identity and aligning yourself with a specific group and their standard. In Europe it is a geographic boundary that makes these decisions vs. over here it is a personal choice. I think the turmoil starts when one group of breeders (or one breeder) decides that they are 'better than _____'. That inevitably starts a war... Why you say? Because it is attacking something that is very personal to an individual. Given that there are X number of horses born every year and with supply and demand determining the market...you can imagine that there is a fair amount of competition. Money, politics and love of the beast itself can make some people a tad irrational at times. (and I include myself in that last bit)

                If a horse has parents of Dutch lineage, why not call it Dutch? Is that a bad thing?
                Not a bad thing at all. Just a choice to do so.
                Watermark Farm
                Blog
                Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
                You Tube Channel

                Comment


                • #9
                  Tasker,

                  Your entire post is so very well said. I agree totally. I applaud anyone and everyone here who is a serious and responsible breeder. I honor their choices and also honor the dedication and their passion.

                  To answer the OP, I have some imported mares and have bred to many imported stallions and even to foreign stallions using frozen semen. My homebreds are American bred, in that they were born here in the USA (which is also the name of a great awards series that honors breeders). However I choose to register them with the American Hanoverian Society. That choice is my personal decision. Many other options are available for horses bred exactly the same way.

                  Different strokes for different folks. I respect those who choose to do otherwise and only ask for a teensy bit of the same back.
                  Mary Lou
                  http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                  https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                  Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks HAF! The respect thing is a two way street for all of us! We are all in this together...
                    Watermark Farm
                    Blog
                    Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
                    You Tube Channel

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tasker View Post
                      Thanks HAF! The respect thing is a two way street for all of us! We are all in this together...
                      Mary Lou
                      http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                      https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                      Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        IMHO -

                        - If a horse is conceived in America, it is American-bred. (Loved the Canadian-with-foreign-parents analogy!!)

                        - If a horse is bred in america it's lovely to see it recognized as American-bred. Why? Because there is an overwhelming belief that you have to go to europe to get a good WB. And the only way to get past that myth is to make sure people know about good horses that are bred on this side of the pond.

                        - Being "american bred" has nothing whatsoever to do with the horse's registry. You can have american bred Oldenburgs, Dutch, Hannoverians, etc. (and american-bred german shepards!!)

                        So maybe "carnivalhill" can clarify what the question is. When asking about why it's important to "stamp the label American" on a horse, are you asking about people wanting breed registries with the word "american" in them, or are you asking why it's important to recognize where good horses are actually bred?
                        www.symranch.com
                        TB Sporthorse Sales and Breeding

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Beautifully said, Tasker and HAF. I feel I just got a hug from each of you and I’m not even participating in this thread.

                          I respect both of your programs and your accomplishments.

                          I think I’ll print this out and post it on my monitor to read the next time I feel cyber-attacked because of the registry choice I’ve made. At the moment, I’m breeding Virgini-Han Snow Loons.

                          Thanks again to both of you.

                          (I’m staring out my office window at one of the broodies, a two year old and this year’s one weanling. They are having a blast in the snow – galloping along. Though the older two are really tiring out the baby, He’s cantering after them, calling out that he’s TIRED – please slow down!)
                          "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            *sniff sniff* I feel the big cyber-hug too!

                            AHF - I just tottered out to catch the last of the horse and do a top off of the buckets (with another round a 7pm) and was watching the pregnant girls...they are fat, wooly and happy but I have a cheesy grin on my face thinking about what they are carrying! The wondering - is it a colt? a filly? will it be something OTHER than a chestnut? how much of mom will come through this time? All of the questions tumble through my mind, and I would imagine it is the same for everyone else...That is what makes it worthwhile IMHO.

                            (now when one of the little beggars steps on me in a few months and squishes a toe, remind me that I was full of hope, joy & anticipation at one point, will ya?)
                            Watermark Farm
                            Blog
                            Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
                            You Tube Channel

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              AHF - I just tottered out to catch the last of the horse and do a top off of the buckets (with another round a 7pm) and was watching the pregnant girls...they are fat, wooly and happy but I have a cheesy grin on my face thinking about what they are carrying! The wondering - is it a colt? a filly? will it be something OTHER than a chestnut? how much of mom will come through this time? All of the questions tumble through my mind, and I would imagine it is the same for everyone else...That is what makes it worthwhile IMHO.
                              I am about to go out and feed the ladies dinner. Only two are preggy this year, but they have just gotten to the stage where I can see movement, especially after they have eaten. I live for those moments in the long, long wait from breeding to foaling.

                              Isn't it crazy what makes our hearts sing?
                              Mary Lou
                              http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                              https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                              Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Personal choice and respect --- those are two concepts you don't see expressed too often on this board! Maybe we all need to learn to play nice!

                                I have Dutch warmbloods, some imported, some bred here, all by "foreign stallions". MY choice will always be to register them Dutch. I like the Dutch system, I like Dutch horses, I'm proud of what I have in my barn. Should I apologize for that? No way! No more than anyone else should apologize for their choices.

                                Should I try to convert everyone to "go Dutch"? Of course not, anymore than I should feel shame for not supporting an American registry. I have that choice, and I've decided not to go that route.

                                For me, there is no need to re-invent the wheel. Those breeders in Holland seem to know what they're doing. Why not just learn from them? I am not in competition with Holland for Pete's sake.

                                A lot of people think that there is some huge sucking noise being made by the money going over to Europe. But realistically, there is only a select percentage of people who can afford to go shopping there. There is still a market for horses here. It is silly to fantasize that the day will come when no-one will stray across the pond to buy a horse --- that everyone will WANT to buy a horse here. People will ALWAYS go over there, and that is an incontrovertable truth. Even if every Grand Prix horse on the continent was registered AWR tomorrow, that would not change.

                                We inherently want the best, it's part of our culture, and "the best" is a very personal and subjective beast. For some, the best will only be imported. That's why a lot of us dream of driving Mercedes and Rolls Royces, not a Ford Pinto. (Not that Ford Pintos are bad, except for the exploding part) You can buy a pair of socks at Neiman Marcus and get the same thing at Wal-Mart, but they won't be as nice. That kind of perception is just ingrained. Why fight it?

                                If as breeders, we do our homework and produce great horses, eventually the product will speak for itself. I think everyone in the US horse community knows that Judgment came from Iron Spring Farm. You can bet everyone in Holland knows where he comes from too.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by carnivalhill View Post
                                  Personal choice and respect --- those are two concepts you don't see expressed too often on this board! Maybe we all need to learn to play nice!

                                  We inherently want the best, it's part of our culture, and "the best" is a very personal and subjective beast. For some, the best will only be imported. That's why a lot of us dream of driving Mercedes and Rolls Royces, not a Ford Pinto. (Not that Ford Pintos are bad, except for the exploding part)
                                  THAT was nice and respectful of American choices!

                                  You can keep your Mercedes, I'll take a Dodge!
                                  Attached Files

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Now if we are going to talk cars...

                                    I'll take a 3500 Duramax Diesel with the Allison tranny, 4 wheel drive, with XM, crew cab, dually, big mirrors, and heavy duty everything in Navy Blue, please. Oh and it would be handy if someone else would pay for it, too!

                                    (I'm a farm girl, what can I say?????)
                                    Watermark Farm
                                    Blog
                                    Watermark Farm Facebook Fan Page
                                    You Tube Channel

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I am an equal opportunity gal. I haul the rig with a Ford 350 diesel, but drive a Volvo for the groceries. Of course, Volvo is owned by Ford these days, so I guess I drive all American. Does that make me a good person?
                                      Mary Lou
                                      http://www.homeagainfarm.com

                                      https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

                                      Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Tasker View Post
                                        Now if we are going to talk cars...

                                        I'll take a 3500 Duramax Diesel with the Allison tranny, 4 wheel drive, with XM, crew cab, dually, big mirrors, and heavy duty everything in Navy Blue, please. Oh and it would be handy if someone else would pay for it, too!

                                        (I'm a farm girl, what can I say?????)

                                        Well I am a farm girl too (also living in PA). And I will take everything you like in your TRUCK, excluding the dually, and replacing with their pewter color!!

                                        The majority of people here breed lovely horses that they should be proud of. But certainly, choice of registry has many aspects, some due to history that some people experienced, others due to type and style of the registry. To each his own and let us all breed beautiful, athletic horses!
                                        Kris
                                        www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
                                        Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X