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Horses born from Artificial Insemination are never first class horses...

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
    Then on top of that, we must consider that newer science has demonstrated that an almost equal number of sperm end up in BOTH oviducts - that ipsilateral to the developing follicle, and that contra-lateral. It is therefore necessary - if we decide we wish to endorse Tessio's theory - to develop a belief that a sperm (the best sperm none the less) not only has superior physical attributes in itself - which is somehow magically linked to the DNA that it carries - but that it also has superior intelligence and homing instinct enabling it to head for the correct oviduct adjacent to the pre-ovulatory follicle.
    Not to mention that the "fastest swimmer" may get there first, but it is not likely the one that penetrates. Once a large group get there to begin their "work" on breaking thru, I'm thinkin it is more luck than speed to see "who" gets to be "the one".

    Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
    no brains or GPS equipment found in a sperm yet!
    Many of our other haves may dispute this with you.

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    • #22
      There is so much that we discover everyday in science and even more to discover. Tessio may be on the right track and his theory will be proven in 50 years or he may be dead wrong.

      But I sure hope he is dead wrong as most of the best stallions that I can get a hold on, are available only through frozen semen.

      Well maybe it's the opposite ... maybe the best sperm is the frozen semen... well just imagine how resilient the little bugger has to be to go through a freezing process, manage to stay alive sometime for many years, wake up and in a fraction of a minute still be able to be the first one to find the right spot and conceive. Well isn't he the real champion !

      Or ... maybe this is an army thing. First the 'éclaireur' ( in French ) is sent to report on what’s ahead... then the troop arrive but only the General has the privilege to conquer the territory!

      So we are all General...but sometime I wonder how some of us had managed to do so!...
      Last edited by bloomingtonfarm; Aug. 29, 2009, 03:17 PM. Reason: Spelling of course...and there certainly some more left...
      Suzanne
      bloomingtonfarm.com
      Breeder of Royal Dutch Sport Horse

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      • #23
        Well, I am a great believer in Nature... But in theory - what would be the choice if he is right?
        Hypothetically the outcome would be:

        1) the best possible outcome from "just a" stallion available for LC;
        2) not the best, but still high quality outcome from the best stallion, available only AI.

        For me AI still has much more to offer by this theory. Otherwise a foal from neighbors "just a stallion, had not had time/money to geld" would be better than a foal from top stallion which is available only AI, and we all know that's not true.

        At the same time this theory, based on experience of a brilliant long term breeder may have some foundation. Few years ago I was reading Russian scientist works on "DNA Phantom Effect" - there is a lot of things which had not been explained... if you want more about this reading, search for
        Peter Gariaev works - controversial, but really interesting. At least he had proved that things with genes are not so simple as it looked at the beginning when the first genome was made.
        ** I LOVE PUIKA FAN CLUB*** member

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        • #24
          Maybe it is the male egocentric mind at work!
          I think this had little to do with observation and more to do with the values at the time. People made up stuff like this in an absence of actual knowledge. Vineyridge was right on the money when they suggested the ideas were linked to popular ideas at the time.
          Hysterical - was from the idea that a woman's uterus would travel in her body and cause her to become crazy. Hysterectomy- removal of that which causes irrational behavior (now we call that a divorce).
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Janet View Post
            Tesio was a brilliant breeder.

            But he beleived in a LOT of weird things.

            Including, IIRC, that if you bred a mare to an "inferior" stallion, all her subsequent foals would be "inferior", even when bred to "superior" stallions. And the importance of skylights in broodmare's stalls.
            This.

            I have read most of Tesio's writings but had some "off base" ideas. Another was that a mare could spend that nervous energy on the track or pass it onto her foals, not both. And while we can all name some incredible race mares that didn't produce much, the stats prove the best mares have the best foals.

            Of course the Jockey Club have embraced this philosophy also.... for completely non- scientific reasons....

            J
            http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cool-S...m/251196806403

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            • #26
              I've got a girlfriend who has twin humans both born of AI and a surrogate mother. they're both super nervous kids. so there.

              Sounds silly to me that somehow the egg and sperm would know that a live cover occurred and that this would then pass on "nervous energy"?

              You know it used to be said that women were "hysterical" because their uteruses became detached and were floating around in their bodies.

              How about drilling holes in skulls to release the evil spirits causing madness - trephening. or leaching. OK leaching it turns our sort of works still.....

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              • #27
                stoicfish i JUST saw yours. funny we both just thought of hysteria!

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by ilka_tu View Post
                  Hi Everyone,

                  I’ve looked through numerous posts dating back but have not come across this topic, or rather claim, that I’ve found extremely disturbing...

                  I’ve picked up a copy of Federico Tesio’s “In His Own Words” and haven’t progressed much into the read as I had to go over, again and again, his claims around artificial insemination. He states that clearly there is evidence that a horse produced through artificial insemination lacks that key ingredient that makes horse a winner, namely “nervous energy”. He goes on to elaborate on this phenomenon and actually supports it with carefully studied cases.

                  He firmly states: “Artificial insemination results in a perfect reproduction of all the Mendelian characteristics but without transmitting the extra “nervous energy” that gives birth to the superior animal that is Nature’s masterpiece”.
                  Someone might want to mention this to Royal Atheena++ lol...

                  from http://www.vhib.org/famous-virginia-horses.html snips are mine

                  Born in 1995, Royal Atheena raced for three years — at ages 3, 4 and 5, ...
                  Royal Atheena was named Darley 3-year-old filly of the year, Darley 4-year-old filly of the year, Darley aged mare of the year, Darley sprinter of the year (she beat the colts) and Darley horse of the year (she beat the colts again). It was as a 4-year-old, in 1999, that she won three of the awards (4-year-old of the year, sprinter of the year and horse of the year)...

                  Royal Atheena’s earnings total $427,259, ... “She still holds the record for the only horse to have won a Darley in every division. As well as being the all-time leading-money-earning filly [in Arabian racing] ever in the United States,” ...

                  At one point she was the all-time leading money earner in Arabian racing in the United States ...Royal Atheena won 11 stakes races, her sire won 14 stakes races...
                  Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
                  Sam: A job? Does it pay?
                  Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
                  Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Equilibrium View Post
                    And I'm not totally convinced with the ET donor mares either. I'm not saying any of those horses won't be good ones who are raised on a donor mare, but I think the "real" mare has a lot to offer her foal in terms of characterisitics. Yes, I would be in the small majority, but having watched my horses growing up in herds and seeing what they pick up from their moms, well I like it that way, with one notable exception.
                    Terri
                    Agreed.

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