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Is there a term for this relationship?

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  • Is there a term for this relationship?

    I can't decide how to describe this relationship.

    Foal A is by Stallion A, Out of Mare A
    Foal B is by Stallion A, Out of Mare A's daughter.

    Are these 2 foals 3/4 siblings? What is the best way to describe the relationship of the 2 foals to potential buyers?
    WildSwan Hanoverians

  • #2
    Yes, I believe the term is 3/4 sibling.
    Redbud Ranch
    Check us out on FB


    • #3
      I would say 3/4 sibling out of daughter of dam of..........

      we have many 3/4 siblings because the dams are all half sisters (from the same dam) - this is the normal use of the term...
      "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
      Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
      Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
      Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB


      • #4
        I have two fillies, same relationship. I call them 3/4 siblings, even though they look nothing alike



        • #5
          Nasrullah and Royal Charger--classic 3/4 siblings. Both by Nearco, but Nasrullah was out of Mumtaz Begum and Royal Charger was out of a daughter of Mumtaz Begum.
          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
          Thread killer Extraordinaire


          • Original Poster

            Thanks everyone, I will now feel comfortable using that term.
            WildSwan Hanoverians


            • #7
              ok, now that THATS resolved...

              Can someone explain the whole first cousin, second cousin, first cousin once removed, stuff? Still have issues there... Lol
              Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch


              • #8
                You and your first cousin's kids are first cousins once removed. Your kids and your cousin's kids are second cousins. Your grandkids and your cousin's kids are second cousins once removed. Your grandkids and your cousin's grandkids are third cousins.

                I drew a nice chart but it won't stay formatted. How do those stick art people manage?
                Still Crazy After All These Years


                • #9
                  NOTE: I know nothing about breeding and am only thinking about humans here

                  But, Is it healthy to breed like that? insist breeding, doesn't it bring out flaws in the horses? Like the closer they are related the more likely a bad gene with become dominant when it used to be recessive.
                  ~*It's not about the ribbons, but about the ride behind it"
                  R.I.P. Teddy O'Connor


                  • #10
                    read the relationships in the first post again.

                    There is no affiinity in either cross.
                    "No matter how cynical I get its just not enough to keep up." Lily Tomlin


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rescue_Rider9 View Post
                      NOTE: I know nothing about breeding and am only thinking about humans here

                      But, Is it healthy to breed like that? insist breeding, doesn't it bring out flaws in the horses? Like the closer they are related the more likely a bad gene with become dominant when it used to be recessive.
                      You misunderstand the relationships. There is no affinity here. Actually, this is something that I wanted to try this year. I was gong to breed Rubizza back to Londonderry, as well as her daughter Wintermaske. It seemed like a really interesting way to see what traits came through from the mares. The breeding gods zapped my plans, though. Maybe next year.
                      Mary Lou


                      Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique


                      • #12
                        Unless Mare's Daughter is not ALSO by "Stallion A", then there is no "incest". But - it was not specified in the OP's post.. we all just assumed Mare's Daughter was by Stallion B..

                        Nothing wrong with breeding both Mare and her daughter (by Stallion B) to Stallion A. As stated above, the resulting foals would be 3/4 siblings.

                        I think the only reason it feels a bit weird to some people (including me, when I thought about it...lol) is because if we equate it to humans, it would be like Mom Susan dating Tom, and Susan's daughter Shelly (whose dad is Ted) dating Tom as well... eww... LMAO!!

                        That said... there ARE breeders out there who breed fillies/colts back to their own sires/dams... *shudder*


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rescue_Rider9 View Post
                          NOTE: I know nothing about breeding and am only thinking about humans here

                          But, Is it healthy to breed like that? insist breeding, doesn't it bring out flaws in the horses? Like the closer they are related the more likely a bad gene with become dominant when it used to be recessive.
                          A recessive gene does not become dominant.
                          However, in the homozygous state, it will be expressed.
                          This is not necessarily a bad thing.
                          Even if it's a "flaw" uncovered, it at least lets the breeder know it's there, and in the long run, this can be a plus for a breeding program...
                          "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                          ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


                          • #14
                            Yep. I've got a mare who is Lasting Impression x Key Moment. She is a 3/4 sister to Lotus T, who is Lemgo x Key Moment. Lemgo is also the sire of Lasting Impression.

                            No inbreeding there.
                            Lotus T - http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lotus+t

                            3/4 Sis, Galiba - http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/galiba3

                            I think it happens more frequently though that a mare and her daughter are bred to the same stallion than the other way around where a stallion and his son are bred to the same mare on different years.
                            The rebel in the grey shirt