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AWS and other Registries.

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  • AWS and other Registries.

    I have a two year old AWS-registered filly, and was wondering if she would be eligible for inspections to be approved for breeding in any other registries.
    Also, if we can find her dam, she will be eligible for a COP with the AHHA. Is it possible for her to be registered with one registry and have a COP with another? I know that horses can only be registered with one registry, so I did not know if that was different. If she can get the Holsteiner COP, then she will be eligible for that registry, what about others?
    Thanks on advance!
    Alex

  • #2
    If she has full reg. papers with the AWS, then she will be eligible for breeding approval with the AWS. If she cannot get full reg. (A or main mare book) papers in the other registries and can only get a C.O.P. then she will not be eligible for inspection for breeding approval with those registries. A C.O.P. is basically just a piece of paper acknowledging/recording her pedigree. It is the most basic of the registration books, or the lowest book to be in inside a registry. A COP is usually given to horses whose ancestory is not traceable on either the sire or dam side, or for those horses that were produced by registered but a non approved stallion and or dam. So therefore, these offspring are not eligible for breeding approval.
    But I think you would have to contact those individual registries yourself in order to get their views on it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Depending on her bloodlines, other registries will certainly look at her for breeding approveal.

      "American" blood though, (QH, Morgan, ASB, etc.) will limit which books she's eligible for, and some registries don't accept any at all. If the dam is 'unknown' (which she would be, even if YOU know who she is, without the papers) then filly could only go in the pre-books.

      If she is AWS Elite, she should have no problem with many of the Euro registries, provided you can get the dam info/DNA.
      InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        She is a full-blooded warmblood, here is her pedigree:
        http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/zerendipity
        Her dam is unregistered, but the AHS (I think that is the right one, we have talked to quite a few...) will give her papers if we can obtain a DNA sample. But that is proving to be a little difficult. The mare's owners are not cooperating very well.
        Once her dam has papers, I understand that Zarina will then get a COP and be eligible for AHHA approval through their Breeding Rules. I would copy paste what that says onto here, but I cannot highlight it from the format that it is in. I am not so great at technology... but if you go to www.holsteiner.com and click on Breeding Rules, it outlines everything.
        I was just wondering what other registries would possibly be options. And if she is put in a pre-mare book, what are the options for her offspring?
        Thanks so much! I have always had geldings, so I am new to all of this, but I want to learn as much as I can.

        Comment


        • #5
          I thought AHS had an age deadline for issuing registration papers. I am also not sure the mare would qualify for AHS papers, based on her pedigree. Her damsire (Kirkes) was known as Bonjour - does anyone know if he was approved by AHS?

          At any rate, your mare may be eligible for Oldenburg's (GOV) lowest mare book (PMBII). Her foals sired by Oldenburg-approved or acknowledged stallions would then be eligible for regular Oldenburg registration papers. There would be some restrictions on the foals, though - they would not be eligible for premium foal awards, the colts would not be eligible for stallion status, and the fillies would only be allowed to move up one mare book. If you do manage to get full AHS papers for your mare, she would then be eligible for Oldenburg's MMB, which would also remove all restrictions on her foals.

          Comment


          • #6
            You state that you have an AWS registered two year old. Only one registry can issue foal papers. As for acceptance for breeding, that is up to the individual registry to inspect and issue approval for breeding. Some registries, may not accept AWS papers.

            Why would you want a COP? AWS is a full member of the WBFSH and if the filly is in their elite book, that should be sufficent to prove her pedigree.

            When you decide which stallion you wish to breed to, you can then ask that registry if they will inspect your mare for approval.
            http://www.herselffarm.com
            Proud of my Hunter Breeding Princesses
            "Grief is the price we all pay for love," Gretchen Jackson (1/29/07) In Memory of Barbaro

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              The COP will make her eligible to produce AHHA registered foals, while AWS registration does not. At least that is what the AHHA tells me...

              Comment


              • #8
                I would check a little more into it. The COP may give you eligible foals, but they may not be eligible for full foal book. Most registries require 4-5 generations beyond the non-approved for breeding mare (your mare's dam) before a foal can gain full foal book. I'm not familiar with the AHHA, but I know they score tough in general, so that's something to keep in mind. Reguardless, you'd still need to take your mare to approvals when she's of breeding age as well.
                ---------------------------

                ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm pretty much 100% sure that AHS will not issue papers on that filly. If her dam is not registered at all, then your in a bad position. I also don't believe that Secret Agent is approved AHS (at least he isn't currently active, unless he's approved VhW?), I don't know anything about that stallion. Bonjour was not approved Hanoverian either ( http://www.hamiltonfarm.com/stallions/bonjour/index.htm )

                  Perhaps check into ISR? They are bit more reputable than AWS, maybe the mare could get into PMB?
                  Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
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                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    For AHHA, a horse with a COP can have full breeding approval if they have something like four generations of horses papered with acceptable registries. And my filly will have this once we track down her dam I believe.
                    And yes, I did know that I would need to take her to approvals at some point.
                    Thanks!

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dressage_Diva333 View Post
                      I'm pretty much 100% sure that AHS will not issue papers on that filly. If her dam is not registered at all, then your in a bad position. I also don't believe that Secret Agent is approved AHS (at least he isn't currently active, unless he's approved VhW?), I don't know anything about that stallion. Bonjour was not approved Hanoverian either ( http://www.hamiltonfarm.com/stallions/bonjour/index.htm )

                      Perhaps check into ISR? They are bit more reputable than AWS, maybe the mare could get into PMB?
                      No it would be the dam that would get papers. Definitely not the filly. But I may be mixing up registries. My filly's granddam was a Hanoverian, and I have been told that she had some special awards or something, so the AHS may be willing to give the dam approval based on her dam? I don't know, I am all very confused now.

                      All that I know is that somehow, if we get the dam's DNA, my filly will get a COP and be eligible for full breeding approval with the AHHA. I am going to have to talk to them again to get everything straight.
                      Thanks everyone for all of your help.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Can the AHHA (or any registry for that matter) issue a CP for foals that already have papers with another registry?? I don't know if CP is the same as registration in that matter, only one registry.

                        I do know and can verify that mares with an AHHA CP can be inspected and produce foalbook foals if they are in any book higher than the Provisional Mare Book. My KWPN mare's TB dam was in the Provisional Book and had numerous CP Holsteiner foals, and had she scored higher she would have been able to have foalbook foals. My mare had a CP half sister by an AHHA approved stallion (Lennox) and if she had scored higher she would have been able to have foalbook foals as well.

                        ISR, BWP, KWPN-NA, RPSI & likely more have books for grade mares or mares with other (not European registry) papers. I don't think you'd have a problem registering her foals, they just won't be in the highest books.
                        Stübben North America
                        Los Angeles - Ventura County - San Luis Obispo

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jumpergirl853 View Post
                          No it would be the dam that would get papers. Definitely not the filly. But I may be mixing up registries. My filly's granddam was a Hanoverian, and I have been told that she had some special awards or something, so the AHS may be willing to give the dam approval based on her dam? I don't know, I am all very confused now.
                          I don't think you can get AHS registration papers on the dam, but maybe you can get her approved for breeding with the AHS.

                          The dam of this filly is already registered with a WB registry. She is a registered Selle Francais mare, registered as "Cheval de Selle" which means that although the dam's sire Kirkes (better known as Bonjour) was an approved stallion with the Selle Francais the grand-dam was considered a foreign saddle horse. That could mean either the grand-dam was not eligible for Selle Francais approval or she was never presented to the French for approval. Essentially the dam has "COP" papers with the Selle Francais. The Selle Francais will have DNA on this dam.
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                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ShannonD View Post
                            Can the AHHA (or any registry for that matter) issue a CP for foals that already have papers with another registry?? I don't know if CP is the same as registration in that matter, only one registry.
                            This was one of my original questions? Anyone know?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A COP will not allow a mare to get breeding privileges if the parents do not meet the minimum requirements.

                              A qualified mare is one which meets the following criteria:
                              a. Stands at least 15.2 hands and is at least two years of age and,
                              b. Holds full registration papers as:
                              1. An AHHA registered Holsteiner or…
                              2. A Jockey Club registered Thoroughbred or…
                              3. A European born and registered Warmblood from an AHHA
                              recognized studbook with a European approved sire or…
                              4. An American born and American or European registered Warmblood
                              from an AHHA recognized studbook with a European or American approved
                              sire;
                              Or,
                              c. Holds an AHHA certificate of pedigree where both the sire and dam each hold a full registration paper of any of the following:
                              1. An AHHA registered Holsteiner or…
                              2. A Jockey Club registered Thoroughbred or…
                              3. A European born and registered Warmblood from an AHHA recognized
                              studbook with a European approved sire or…
                              4. An American born and American or European registered Warmblood from an AHHA recognized studbook with a European or American approved sire and
                              d. Holds documentation of a three-generation pedigree in which only horses described above appear.


                              So if the sire and dam of your mare both hold full registration but maybe just are not approved, you can get around it with the COP. Otherwise, the COP isn't going to help you.

                              The provisional mare book may have been an option since it was open to horses that lacked documentation but had (through DNA, etc.) proof of an acceptable pedigree. Unfortunately it was closed in 2007.

                              The BWP offers an auxiliary mare studbook that would allow her to produce BWP registered & branded offspring but no stallion candidates.
                              The rebel in the grey shirt

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                hate to hijack the thread, but I have my own AWS questions.

                                My current little guy is out of an arabian mare, but by an AWS Elite stallion. Can I bring this foal to inspection and get him registered, and potentially branded?
                                Kelly
                                It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by tempichange View Post
                                  hate to hijack the thread, but I have my own AWS questions.

                                  My current little guy is out of an arabian mare, but by an AWS Elite stallion. Can I bring this foal to inspection and get him registered, and potentially branded?
                                  Yes.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Her dam is NOT unregistered!!!! I used to own her and she has Selle Francais papers. Contact the NASFA. PM me or e-mail me at julie@triplejsporthorse.com.

                                    I own Grenache's first daughter (that I bred and raised) who also is registered with NASFA.

                                    I think the problem is that the 2nd owner after me never transferred ownership. I know this because I contacted NASFA several years ago and the mare's papers were still in the name of the lady I sold the mare to. And I had talked to that lady and she had sold the mare.

                                    I would like to know the mare is doing well. She is the only horse I have ever sold that I lost track of.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by jumpergirl853 View Post
                                      No it would be the dam that would get papers. Definitely not the filly. But I may be mixing up registries. My filly's granddam was a Hanoverian, and I have been told that she had some special awards or something, so the AHS may be willing to give the dam approval based on her dam? I don't know, I am all very confused now.

                                      All that I know is that somehow, if we get the dam's DNA, my filly will get a COP and be eligible for full breeding approval with the AHHA. I am going to have to talk to them again to get everything straight.
                                      Thanks everyone for all of your help.
                                      I would call the AHHA with the new information about the dam and see what they can do.
                                      Last edited by grayfox; Nov. 2, 2009, 09:43 AM. Reason: posted at the same time.
                                      www.grayfoxfarms.com Home of Redwine, Aloha, Federalist, Romantic Star and Rated R.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I just got off the phone with the AHHA about a mare we recently acquired - I told them I had "stupid, new-to-AHHA questions" & they were wonderful and very, very helpful.

                                        Call them!
                                        Hidden Echo Farm, Carlisle, PA -- home of JC palomino sire Canadian Kid (1990 - 2013) & AQHA sire Lark's Favorite, son of Rugged Lark.

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