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just an odd sort of interesting tidbit for colour fanciers...

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  • just an odd sort of interesting tidbit for colour fanciers...



    As some of you know, I'm now officially unemployed. Exactly 20 years in this state in August, and the first time I'll be truly without a job. Prospect out there, but a hitch in it at the moment, and a pay cut no matter.

    What that has to do with this post, I'm not *entirely* sure, but...

    Sunday evening I walk into church and the cover art on the bulletin just blows me away. Due to the times, seven area churches (and when I say "area" I'm talking HUGE, not city blocks or anything, crossing two counties even) have combined into on 'parish' and now share staff etc. The name of the combined parish was finally decided on, to be "St. Paul the Apostle." The last couple weeks have been historical/informational articles on the history behind the name. The cover art this week was "St. Paul at His Conversion"
    http://www.artchive.com/artchive/c/c...io_st_paul.jpg

    credits:The Conversion of Saint Paul, Caravaggio, 1600-1601
    Oil on canvas 90 1/2 x 70 in
    Cerasi Chapel, Santa Maria del Popolo, Rome

    But you know what got me? Not only is it a tobiano, but a BUCKSKIN tobiano. A baroque, buckskin tobi.

    I'll add that the shoulder marking was not lost on me--I've two with that *almost exact* shoulder marking, that originally when my guy came, was an odd marking to my eye.

    Somehow, in the midst of chaos and uncertaintly, this cover art just had me sitting there with a serene smile.

    I'm NOT *entirely* nuts trying to put colour back into baroques.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

  • #2


    Very cool. What a neat horse in the painting. Someone REALLY must find out who this horse was/might have been
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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    • Original Poster

      #3
      Seriously. I was really taken by it.

      There's a painting of one of the Queens of England on what appears to be an Iberian, who is also Tobiano. Alas, I had it on my old, dead computer.
      InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

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      • #4
        Caravaggio is one of my favorite painters- what a painting.

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        • #5
          http://hoocher.com/Anthony_Van_Dyck/...ck_ca_1635.jpg

          I always liked this painting. Its by the dutch painter Van Dyck and its of one of the kings of France. Looks like a buckskin baroque horse to me. I took a bit of art history in university and there are many, many 'coloured' horses in paintings about four to five hundred years ago. I believe it was in the 1800s that grey horses came into fashion and many colours disappeared. But how can you blame them. Nothing says 'I'm rich' back in the day like riding a clean, grey/white horse into town when the average person lived with dirt under their fingernails for their whole lives! I would also guess that in North America having a dilute or paint horse would suggest wild horse origins which was not desired but I digress...

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          • #6
            The Van Dyke is of Charles I of the United Kingdoms. Van Dyke was his court painter. Charles I is the one who got his head removed by the Parliamentarians.

            Oddly enough, many of the early TBs appear to have been oddly colored from their names. Palomino was not entirely unknown, as one famous early family was noted for that color. One of the early imports was known as the Bloody Shouldered Arabian; and there was a Old Spot and a whole Spot Family, IIRC. I know there was a Bald Galloway.

            Found this page on bloodlines.net on very early imports in the creation of the TB, showing that lots of them were definitely colored and some were baroque.
            http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Bios/We...BassettArabian
            Last edited by vineyridge; Jul. 23, 2009, 12:01 AM.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire

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            • #7
              Love love Caravaggio
              *The Quietman ~ Irish Approved Gr.1 Stallion
              www.windyislesfarms.com
              Like Us on Facebook

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              • #8
                That's really interesting thanks so much for sharing!!
                Starflower Stables

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                • #9
                  I love this thread! I majored in art history and of course always trying to work horses in everywhere my thesis (which won an award tyvm ) was "The Influence of the Spanish Riding School on Baroque Equestrian Portraiture". Horses in art is just an absolutely amazing topic.

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                  • #10
                    very cool!

                    I love that. My sister in law from New York was here this past week for our daughter's wedding and asked my husband why the only pictures in our new house has horses in it! I would love to add that one to my collection! Thanks for sharing.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Marengo View Post
                      http://hoocher.com/Anthony_Van_Dyck/...ck_ca_1635.jpg

                      I always liked this painting. Its by the dutch painter Van Dyck and its of one of the kings of France. Looks like a buckskin baroque horse to me...
                      there is another by Le Brun entitled The Chancellor Seguier and that animal is a cremello...and we know how "well" cremello breeding went when it was intentional...

                      best
                      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

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                      • #12
                        Here's another, from the 17th century:
                        http://www.castellodithiene.com/en/windows/09.htm

                        from http://www.castellodithiene.com/en/visit.htm which also has fun photos of the stables. I was told the family bred horses, and used the space in front of the palazzo as a riding area to show the horses to buyers. You can see an aerial view under "history".

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                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          and we know how "well" cremello breeding went when it was intentional...
                          The remarkable part is that there still ARE dilutes in the Lusitano breed. The... um... we'll call them "old timers" for fear of political incorrectness, STILL think that they are 'genetically weak' or 'inferior.'

                          You all are amazing! The art knowlege and pedigree knowledge... I bow in awe! This is one for me to save all the references.
                          InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Slightly off the baroque path, this post reminded me of the Royal Hanoverian Creams.

                            http://www.newdilutions.com/RHC/RHC_images/beauty.jpg

                            http://www.newdilutions.com/RHC/index.htm
                            www.SilverSpringFarm.net
                            Breeder of rare, high quality Silver Dapple Paints and Quarter Horses.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
                              The remarkable part is that there still ARE dilutes in the Lusitano breed. The... um... we'll call them "old timers" for fear of political incorrectness, STILL think that they are 'genetically weak' or 'inferior.'


                              I have a book upstairs that says that the Hannoverian Cremes (victorian cremes in england) were prone to illness and even toward the end of their lineages were reduced to wearing fake tails....

                              not something anyone wanted for their breeding animals much less the royal houses of Europe
                              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                                I have a book upstairs that says that the Hannoverian Cremes (victorian cremes in england) were prone to illness and even toward the end of their lineages were reduced to wearing fake tails....

                                not something anyone wanted for their breeding animals much less the royal houses of Europe
                                It's quite likely that they were highly inbred in order to maintain the color. And as most people know, too much inbreeding can lead to negative recessive traits pairing up, and overall less-than-stellar health.

                                Judy
                                www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
                                Dedicated to breeding Friesian Sporthorses
                                with world class pedigrees and sport suitability

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                                • #17
                                  Which hopefully with our knowledge of genes we can avoid those sorts of issues now a days.

                                  And Pp you are are little nuts - but you have to be to go against the current
                                  "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
                                  Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
                                  Need You Now Equine

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                                  • #18
                                    Very cool pp! Thanks for sharing
                                    Liz
                                    Ainninn House Stud
                                    Irish Draughts and Connemaras
                                    Co. Westmeath, Ireland

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