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Conformation Critique - UPDATE: 8 Years Old

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  • Conformation Critique - UPDATE: 8 Years Old

    I was disappointed that the "young colt" thread got so heated, because I was learning a lot from it. So, I thought I would offer a photograph of a less controversial horse. This is a filly, not a stallion prospect, and is not now and will probably never be for sale. I am not a breeder, and have no plans for breeding her until/if she proves herself under saddle.

    I am very interested in learning more about evaulating young horse conformation, and we have many experienced breeders available to us here.

    This is the best conformation photo I have of my girl:
    http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...=MarchPose.jpg

    It was taken in March, so she was fuzzy, and she was still wet from her bath, but at least with the hair slicked down you can better see her bone structure. She was just a couple of weeks away from turning 2 at this time.

    What I see: A pretty, kind head and eye attached to a resonable neck for a horse of her age. Decent shoulder but I'd prefer just a little more length/slope. A bit long in the back and weak in the coupling, butt high, and shorter in the hip than I'd prefer. You can't see it here, but her front cannons are significantly offset, although she does not toe out in the front to the degree that this photo suggests. She stands a bit camped out in the back and is straight through the hocks and is quite cow-hocked and therefore toes out behind.

    She's not going to be an upper level dressage horse or jumper, but that's not what she's bred for, so that's not really any surprise!

    What say our experts?
    Last edited by Montanas_Girl; Mar. 30, 2015, 07:25 PM.

  • #2
    Impossible to evaluate based on that picture ...

    You are shooting from the back end forward and it throws all of the angles and dimensions off. It makes her looks like her neck is VERY short, whereas in reality it may not be - its just the angle the picture was taken at

    The braid also makes it impossible to evaluate that neck. Your eye is drawn to it and it makes the neck look top heavy and even shorter, so you'd need to take the picture from the other side so the mane doesnt take away from her appearance

    Cant tell anything about her shoulder or top line or head with this angle either

    Sorry!
    www.TrueColoursFarm.com
    www.truecoloursproducts.com

    True Colours Farm on Facebook

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    • #3
      In addition two is a very hard age for evaluation, do you have a 3month approx pic?
      Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most...now where did I put those marbles...
      Secretary, WTF Registry

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      • #4
        okay, I'll bite.........I really really don't like to critique them at this age. I like the 3 weeks, 3 months, three years model and this grl would be much better evaluated at 3 years. That said, that striking face is a great starting place. I think that her neck is o a decent length and that it will fill out with time. Her shoulder is ok, but the pastern angle does not corespond and they seem very long. I can see tht she toes out behind, but given her hip angle, that may or may not change as she grows into her frame. She seems a bit potbellied to me and looks very "juvenile", certainly not a two year old that I would be starting.

        I disagree that she is longbacked, I think that it may be an illusion given the poor camera angle and the growing butt.

        She has a decent frame, but I would like to see a three month old picture and a photo from a better angle. The QH photo angle doesn't do much for a growing warmblood baby..
        Holly
        www.ironhorsefrm.com
        Oldenburg foals and young prospects
        LIKE us on Facebook!

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        • Original Poster

          #5
          Fair enough points. I was holding, and one of the barn teenagers was taking the picture. It was a moment of "We're at a horse show - and she's clean for a change! Take a picture quick!" I agree that the braid can be distracting - although I promise it is less distracting than her 2 ft long mane! This filly has hair genes like I have never seen!

          I don't have any three month pictures (she was still with her breeder then), but here is one taken when she was two months old:
          http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...hs_Profile.jpg

          IronHorseFarm, you were posting as I was. Thanks for the compliment, but she is not a warmblood. She is a purebred Arabian, and her bloodlines in particular are known to be slow to mature. I agree that she looks exceptionally juvenile when compared to warmblood babies!

          Comment


          • #6
            Good call on this post! Thanks for volunteering your filly.
            BTW I am a sucker for sweet, bay filly's.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah! Another brave soul (thank you). Your horse is also made of lines: http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/u.../MarchPose.jpg

              Well I'm not expert, and I'm not too good an adjusting conformation because of photo angles, but I'll give it a shot.

              She's a little camped out behind (I think it's exaggerated in the photo, her back leg doesn't look as camped out). Her back-end actually sets her up to be sickle-hocked, and if she were standing properly we should see this.

              I'm having a great deal of difficulty judging her front legs because of the photo angle.

              Her heels are low, and thus her pastern angles aren`t matching her shoulder - her feet need some work. I`d really like to hear someone with more experience with feet chime in on that one.

              She has a very pretty head, nice ears, good eye. I like her neck.

              It looks like she has a long loin-coupling which makes for a weak back (her croup needs to be closer to the point-of-the-hip)

              Finished my critique and then read what you wrote - looks like we agree She is pretty cute mind you. Except for her loin coupling I don`t see too much that is a big issue, she had a nice balance and should make a very nice riding horse. It would be interesting to see her again in a year or two.

              Would not have guessed Arabian, but I see it now, I guess What strain is she?
              "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
              Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
              Need You Now Equine

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              • #8
                Re: the feet, I don't think it's a low heel issue. I think her foot is in front of her leg, period. How that will shake out in time I don't know, I don't trim enough babies to be sure of that.
                "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                ---
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

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                • #9
                  [QUOTE]
                  Originally posted by Montanas_Girl View Post
                  I don't have any three month pictures (she was still with her breeder then), but here is one taken when she was two months old:
                  http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...hs_Profile.jpg

                  QUOTE]
                  that is much better and makes someone say "wow"

                  best
                  Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                  I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

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                  • #10
                    Eqtrainer, thanks I was looking again, you`re right it`s not her heels its her toes - OP I`d look into her feet asap don`t want the pretty girl to hurt herself .
                    "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
                    Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
                    Need You Now Equine

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Montanas_Girl View Post
                      IronHorseFarm, you were posting as I was. Thanks for the compliment, but she is not a warmblood. She is a purebred Arabian, and her bloodlines in particular are known to be slow to mature. I agree that she looks exceptionally juvenile when compared to warmblood babies!
                      I realy really like the baby picture. She looks balanced and harmonious. If she grows into that you'll be very very pleased with what you get.

                      My first horse ever was an Arab mare marked very very similarly, her loin connection could have used some work too so it may just be the breed and it is not at all uncommon for Arabians to be toed out in the rear (and they proably aren't going to grow out of it like a WB would as they "widen" ).

                      I would wager a bet that as a three year old she is going to have a very very striking front end with a pretty head/neck/shoulder combination!
                      Holly
                      www.ironhorsefrm.com
                      Oldenburg foals and young prospects
                      LIKE us on Facebook!

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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Wow, Nes, thank you! May I "steal" a copy of that photograph with the lines on it? That could be very useful in the future!

                        I will take a closer look at her feet the next time I see her. We are about 200 miles apart right now, but that will change in a couple of months. In the interest of allowing her to be a baby in a big field with friends, she's suffered a bit of benign neglect since she was a weanling. It is entirely possible that we've not paid as close attention to her hooves as we should have. I don't think I have any better photos of her feet and legs, but I'll look around on my computer to make sure.

                        She is kind of a mix of CMK, Polish, and Russian lines. Very American/Domestic. She is by Khartoon Khlassic (Khemosabi x Barbary granddaughter) and out of a *Padron/Bey Shah granddaughter.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Thanks, Tamara and IronHorseFarm! I bought Khali when she was two weeks old. She was quite a stunner as a baby! I keep waiting for her to grow back into that horse. She has definitely had some *interesting* growth phases along the way. Patience, patience I know.

                          Yes, the loin connection issue is not at all a surprise, given her breed. Personally, I'm most concerned about the offset cannons as far as her future use is concerned. Any thoughts on that?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nes View Post
                            Yeah! Another brave soul (thank you). Your horse is also made of lines: http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/u.../MarchPose.jpg

                            Hi Nes, thanks for providing this visual but if I might offer some constructive criticism.

                            I'm afraid the line of the femur is marked incorrectly in this photo. The femur originates at the hip joint which is much further forward on the pelvis. The femur terminates at the stifle joint which is further distal than you have marked it on the photo. You have the line of the femur starting out behind the hip joint and ending at the patella. The actual stifle joint is lower than that. Also, the line of the pelvis is incorrect. You have marked it much lower and more angular than it actually is.

                            I agree with EqTrainer about the feet. This filly is made with her feet in front of the line of her base of support. Her hoof angles look like they pretty much match her pastern angles though.
                            Last edited by Waterwitch; Jun. 25, 2009, 12:10 PM. Reason: clarity
                            Liz
                            Ainninn House Stud
                            Irish Draughts and Connemaras
                            Co. Westmeath, Ireland

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                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Okay, I've found a photograph of her front legs that I took for her PtHA registration application. The angle is not great, but I think you can see what I'm talking about here. I really wish you could see her whole leg, all the way down to her hooves, but this is the best I can do for the moment.

                              http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...02007/Nov5.jpg

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I was guessing domestic, she's got that bulkier but pretty look to her .

                                Go ahead & take - just goofing around in photoshop. I find it helps to keep my mind on track and going through the conformation one point at a time when I do that - otherwise I end up critiqueing a little bit of everything & confusing myself .

                                A new picture of her from the front end (I understand that's difficult if she's far away) would be best. From this photo it looks like her degree of turn is fairly consistent down her leg so shouldn't cause to much of an issue. I think she's just bench kneed, and again good farrier work should help combat the issues this will cause (really you're putting too much strain on the inside of the leg, like you walking on the sides of your feet).
                                "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
                                Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
                                Need You Now Equine

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Oh! Do mine, too! This is very educational!

                                  This is so good for me to practice looking at conformation. Could you do mine, too?

                                  This is a pic of our soon-to-be-gelded colt at 3 weeks. He was a little butt high at the time, but that just goes back and forth. He is now two months, but it is so hard to get a good conformation shot of the little boogers!

                                  Bred to be an Eventer (probably never higher than Prelim, unless I get a lot more nerve or someone buys him). We are still considering breeding back to the stud (Connemara stallion ArdCeltic Art). Out of a nice, hunter type TB mare.

                                  http://bookendfarm.com/RockyConf3weeks1.jpg
                                  Bookend Farm
                                  www.bookendfarm.com

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                                  • #18
                                    Tx WW - you're right, I wasn't intending the lines to match the length of the bones, but you're very right I'm incorrect on the pelvis angle, I'll try to re-draw
                                    "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
                                    Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
                                    Need You Now Equine

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Offset cannons don't worry me too much unless her intended job is jumping. Toeing out as a result is a bit concerning but most babies turn out and as their chests spread they turn in and correct. So you don't want to necessarily try to "fix" that but just trim using her live sole plane as a guide and let things shake out as they will.

                                      I don't think she necessarily looks as if her feet have been neglected.... I think that might be her conformation but again, I'm not sure as I just don't trim *that* many babies to have watched a bunch who are built that way at two grow up.
                                      "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                      ---
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        While I appreciate the evaluation of angles by spotting the lines, this is not a straight-on side shot, and so I would question the validity of the geometry no matter where one spots the points.

                                        Her foot does seem to be a bit in front of her, but she is rather large footed for an arabian (good thing for sport), and I wonder what that will look like when all the parts are grown. As others have said, this is not a good age to be picking apart her conformation.

                                        It is fun to note that many of the lines in her pedigree were used to cross on Welsh and Halflingers to create the modern German (also Danish, etc.) Riding Ponies.
                                        http://www.selahwaysporthorses.com/

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