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Inguinal/Scrotal Hernia EDIT...how long would you wait/confine mare&foal befor...

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  • Inguinal/Scrotal Hernia EDIT...how long would you wait/confine mare&foal befor...

    Four day old colt with inguinal/scrotal hernia (honestly I don't know which one exactly because both terms have been used but testicles look like "bull testicles" if that helps ). "Midwife", per vet instructions has been pushing the intestine back up and supposedly it is working. However, vet said yesterday IF it doesn't resolve that colt will need surgery and they "usually go ahead and geld them at the same time". Well, the world needs another stallion like I need another hole in the head BUT said colt is by a very nice approved Oldenburg stallion that competed in dressage through I-1 (jumps the moon too!) and dam is a Premium mare with Oldenburg (a 4 yr old maiden, so we don't know of her "worthiness" just yet but a VERY nice mare). We'd really a chance to see if this colt is a stallion prospect or at least let the testosterone flow for a while but don't want to compromise colt's health in any way. I've read conflicting views as to whether or not this is hereditary and, if it is, well gelding is the way to go for sure. Also, said colt was supposed to be a filly so he's for sale and would like the option of keeping him entire for future sale. What do you all think?? TIA!


    Have decided to geld if hernia needs repair, however, this is the new question: How long would you wait for this to resolve before doing surgery? Reason I ask is that mare/foal are being confined to 24x24 area and foal is going stir crazy (I am too!). Both need to get out and see the world a bit more. FYI, it's been a week, but I'm worried about the stress of confinement. Am I being ridiculous?
    Last edited by Dune; Jun. 13, 2009, 02:35 PM.

  • #2
    I personally would geld, especially if he is for sale. Way more people want a gelding than a stallion prospect.
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    • #3
      Geld, geld, geld..... A nice potential stallion makes a really nice gelding!
      Siegi Belz
      www.stalleuropa.com
      2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
        I personally would geld, especially if he is for sale. Way more people want a gelding than a stallion prospect.


        Hope your little boy is okay though.
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        • #5
          I'm sure it is possible, but I have never seen a scrotal/inguinal hernia corrected without also gelding at the same time. I would go ahead and have him gelded.
          Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dune View Post
            Four day old colt with inguinal/scrotal hernia (honestly I don't know which one exactly because both terms have been used but testicles look like "bull testicles" if that helps ).
            Well, to be specific, the intestine is probably dropping through the inguinal canal into the scrotum. So, both terms are correct, if that helps you understand a bit better?

            "Midwife", per vet instructions has been pushing the intestine back up and supposedly it is working. However, vet said yesterday IF it doesn't resolve that colt will need surgery and they "usually go ahead and geld them at the same time". Well, the world needs another stallion like I need another hole in the head BUT said colt is by a very nice approved Oldenburg stallion that competed in dressage through I-1 (jumps the moon too!) and dam is a Premium mare with Oldenburg (a 4 yr old maiden, so we don't know of her "worthiness" just yet but a VERY nice mare). We'd really a chance to see if this colt is a stallion prospect or at least let the testosterone flow for a while but don't want to compromise colt's health in any way. I've read conflicting views as to whether or not this is hereditary and, if it is, well gelding is the way to go for sure. Also, said colt was supposed to be a filly so he's for sale and would like the option of keeping him entire for future sale. What do you all think?? TIA!
            Can't ride or breed pedigrees...well..you "can" breed pedigrees, but it's not the best way to go . While I appreciate the desire to let the boy grow a bit to see if he fulfilled his genetic potential, as others have noted, his marketability will be considerably higher as a gelding and it could potentially save you some major headaches and problems - say if that loop of intestine manages to drop down into the scrotum and no one notices it quickly enough. Messy, nasty, expensive and the very real potential of losing your foal. If he were mine, I'd geld...but then, I seem to be on a gelding spree these days !

            Hope that helps!
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            • #7
              A lot of them will resolve by 4- 6 mos with "replacing' them, but I would still geld - it may be inherited. I had one which resolved by 3 mos, and another that was surgically repaired and gelded at 4 mos.
              Quick note, - if a colt had a scrotal/inguinal hernia early, they really should be castrated and ligated, not the usual field procedure, b/c there is a higher risk of herniation of the intestine in those colts
              http://www.cngsporthorses.com

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              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by kookicat View Post


                Hope your little boy is okay though.
                Thank you, I hope so too. I hate to think of them going through all this stress so early one.

                Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
                Well, to be specific, the intestine is probably dropping through the inguinal canal into the scrotum. So, both terms are correct, if that helps you understand a bit better?


                Yes, thanks, so the terms are interchangeable. That's *exactly* what I was wondering.


                If he were mine, I'd geld...but then, I seem to be on a gelding spree these days ! Hope that helps!

                Yes, that helps immensely. Thank you.

                l

                Originally posted by elizabeth Callahan View Post
                A lot of them will resolve by 4- 6 mos with "replacing' them, but I would still geld - it may be inherited. I had one which resolved by 3 mos, and another that was surgically repaired and gelded at 4 mos.
                Quick note, - if a colt had a scrotal/inguinal hernia early, they really should be castrated and ligated, not the usual field procedure, b/c there is a higher risk of herniation of the intestine in those colts
                Some have hinted at the heritability factor, so is it or isn't it?? For instance, say he's fine, doesn't need surgery and a buyer wants him intact. Do you then need to disclose this was a problem at birth that went away but would be a consideration for leaving him a stallion?? Secondly, are there any articles you can refer to regarding the castration/ligation procedure? Foal is at vet's farm and he tends to be a "field" guy, so I'd like to have my information straight in case he wants to do it there.

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                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Bumping because I have new question, how long would you wait to repair said hernia if it meant you have to confine mare/foal? They are currently in 24x24 with NO turnout whatsoever to see if the hernia resolves on its own. Colt is going stircrazy and already obnoxious. Shoulda been a filly, darn it!

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                  • #10
                    You'll have to confine afterwards if it is a surgical repair - up to 4 weeks, so I am not sure I would do a whole lot now. You can get it done anytime, it just might correct on its own if you wait until he is 4-5 mos.- just depends on what you want to do
                    http://www.cngsporthorses.com

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                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by elizabeth Callahan View Post
                      You'll have to confine afterwards if it is a surgical repair - up to 4 weeks, so I am not sure I would do a whole lot now. You can get it done anytime, it just might correct on its own if you wait until he is 4-5 mos.- just depends on what you want to do

                      Seriously, folks confine their foals for that period of time???

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                      • #12
                        I would personally have the surgery done and geld at the same time. If it gets worse you can end up with more problems. He's young and should heal quickly. I'm sure he's a handful now but after the surgery he will have an attitude change and will be uncomrtable for a while so the 4 weeks won't be that long for confinement. And a 24x24 is suitable space.
                        Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                        "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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                        • #13
                          Ok,
                          Having gone through this with one of my colt before here is my take/experience.

                          If *on average* when you reach to push the hernia back in you find that it is generally smaller, or not there at all, chances are it is in the process of resolving itself.
                          If however you are finding that the majority of the time it is there and getting bigger and harder to push back in (as it was the case with my colt) then you should get it fixed.
                          I did mine when the colt was 3 weeks old. I waited until then, pushing it back in every chance I got but he was getting bigger and his hernia was getting bigger. I started thinking that as he started to drink more and more milk and start to eat solid food his intestine were going to get bigger and heavier. So off to the surgeon he went.

                          Operation has to be in sterile envirnoment, if he has a hernia that means that once they cut the skin the intestines will be exposed. We wants things clean clean clean.

                          About gelding. The operation is to repair an inguinal canal that is somewhat enlarged (the cause of which we don't know, it's an accident). The surgeons needs to close it to prevent any intestines from looping back down. He can't do that *and* leave an opening of the testicules-so off they come.
                          People say that they gueld because its hereditary: my surgeons laught at that one. That is not *why* they geld, it makes the operation a lot simpler and more affordable. TA stallion with a potential hernia in the inguinal canal is not likely to stay a stallion very long. Inguinal hernia in mature stallions is very serious and most often ends badly.

                          My colt was one of the nicest I've bred, did I hesitate to geld:no. It was the best for him to get this fixed and there is ennough stallions out there as far as I'm concerned.

                          Confinement: alas yes. 4 weeks of confinement. First two weeks in a 24 x24 stall (drove his poor mother crazy) and then 2 weeks in a small paddock ( I was told 40 x40 and that was already much better.

                          First week he will need to be monitored very closely (temp check, cleaning the inscision site) after that the swelling goes down slowly and he just has to heal.

                          Hope this helps.
                          Véronique
                          www.FormosusSporthorses.ca
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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ise@ssl View Post
                            I would personally have the surgery done and geld at the same time. If it gets worse you can end up with more problems. He's young and should heal quickly. I'm sure he's a handful now but after the surgery he will have an attitude change and will be uncomrtable for a while so the 4 weeks won't be that long for confinement. And a 24x24 is suitable space.
                            Have you personally had this done on one of yours? If so, how long did you wait to see if it resolved on its own? How long would you wait to see if it resolved on its own? Thanks!

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                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Formosus View Post
                              Ok,
                              Having gone through this with one of my colt before here is my take/experience.

                              If *on average* when you reach to push the hernia back in you find that it is generally smaller, or not there at all, chances are it is in the process of resolving itself.
                              If however you are finding that the majority of the time it is there and getting bigger and harder to push back in (as it was the case with my colt) then you should get it fixed.
                              I did mine when the colt was 3 weeks old. I waited until then, pushing it back in every chance I got

                              What size stall was yours in during this time? How often was "every chance I got"?


                              but he was getting bigger and his hernia was getting bigger. I started thinking that as he started to drink more and more milk and start to eat solid food his intestine were going to get bigger and heavier. So off to the surgeon he went.

                              So you sent them to the hospital for this surgery? This farm is owned by vet practice, I wonder if they'll want to do it there and if so, if I should "allow" that?


                              Operation has to be in sterile envirnoment, if he has a hernia that means that once they cut the skin the intestines will be exposed. We wants things clean clean clean.

                              Yes, understand that.


                              About gelding. The operation is to repair an inguinal canal that is somewhat enlarged (the cause of which we don't know, it's an accident). The surgeons needs to close it to prevent any intestines from looping back down. He can't do that *and* leave an opening of the testicules-so off they come.

                              Got it.

                              People say that they gueld because its hereditary: my surgeons laught at that one. That is not *why* they geld, it makes the operation a lot simpler and more affordable. TA stallion with a potential hernia in the inguinal canal is not likely to stay a stallion very long. Inguinal hernia in mature stallions is very serious and most often ends badly.

                              My colt was one of the nicest I've bred, did I hesitate to geld:no. It was the best for him to get this fixed and there is ennough stallions out there as far as I'm concerned.


                              Ok, got that and agree as well.

                              Confinement: alas yes. 4 weeks of confinement. First two weeks in a 24 x24 stall (drove his poor mother crazy) and then 2 weeks in a small paddock ( I was told 40 x40 and that was already much better.

                              Yes, I feel more sorry for the mare than the foal right now. What did you do to make the time pass "better" for her? Any ideas? Poor thing.


                              First week he will need to be monitored very closely (temp check, cleaning the inscision site) after that the swelling goes down slowly and he just has to heal.

                              Hope this helps.


                              It helps immensely! Thanks SO much for your detailed reply!
                              l

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                              • #16
                                The first three weeks of his life he was not confined per say. He was in a private paddock with his dam.
                                Every chance I got was twice in the morning before I left for work and a couple more time in the evening-every time I went to see him ( probably 4 or five time). Some time the hernia was nowhere to be felt but as time went on it was more and more infrequent and as I posted earlier it was getting bigger (heavier).
                                When it started it was a large handfull and I could "squeeze" it back in relatively easily but when I made the call it was starting to be more then a big handfull and I could not push it back in easily.
                                Upon opening him up the surgeon told me I'd made the right call: the opening was pretty large.
                                Good luck!
                                Véronique
                                www.FormosusSporthorses.ca
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                                • #17
                                  We haven't experienced this on any of our colts but I do know from some issues involving our fillies and their umbilicus - what you see or feel on the outside isn't always what is happening on the inside. Unless you've had an ultra-sound done on this colt you can't really tell what's going on inside. That's why I would do the surgery and geld at the same time.
                                  Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                                  "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

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