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"Coloured" 3/4-7/8th TB or WB but none/few at the top?

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    woweezowee you've unintentionally illustrated one of the main problems facing pinto warmblood/sporthorse breeders, as far as stereotyping and prejudice. This was what was touched on earlier, by JB, myself and others.

    There are many people like you and your family member who see a pinto, and think Paint. Because Paints are mostly viewed negatively in the warmblood/sporthorse world (and aren't accepted into most of the respected registries), it can lead to stereotyping and prejudice against all pintos, when people see them and automatically assume they must be Paints.

    There are pinto warmbloods and sporthorses out there with no Paint in their pedigrees whatsoever. (There are palomino, buckskin, and cremellos which are warmbloods too, with no stockhorse breeding.)

    Public perception and awareness of color possibilities hasn't caught up with the progress we've made in breeding.

    Wowee, I wouldn't rule out breeding for a pinto. If you're new to "colour", you may want to see this site With a TB mare your foal should even be eligible for warmblood registration, if you choose an approved warmblood stallion. A registered pinto warmblood is worlds away from a Paint.

    from a previous post on this thread:
    Over here, "color" is typically thought of as belong to the stock-type horses which just aren't suitable (in general!) for the sporthorse disciplines we're talking about here.
    JB nailed the cause for most of the prejudice against colored horses. There are many people who don't know the difference between Paint and pinto, and assume everything colored is some sort of Paint/QH/stockhorse/undesirable. They don't realize you can now get warmbloods and well bred sporthorses with pretty colors and not even a drop of stockhorse blood.
    No matter how much you beat a mule, it will never become a race horse.


      Originally posted by dressuursport View Post
      A registered pinto warmblood is worlds away from a Paint.
      I am sure *I* know what you mean, but I think others might take this the wrong way, so if I may

      There are some really, really nice APHA (paint) horses out there who are largely TB and you'd never know they had any stockhorse blood in them at all. Take a look at any spotted HUS horse and you'll see what I mean. Even a full TB can be registered APHA, therefore technically (also) be a Paint. It just won't be Tobiano And, technically, that horse could be approved for WB breeding (though I'm sure all the WB registries would have just keeled over at the thought of approving a horse who looked like Racey Remarque )
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


        Originally posted by pwynnnorman View Post
        Just wondering here. Over the years, there have been some very, very nicely bred "coloured" horses (I'm using the British spelling out of respect for their very respectful "coloured" showing divisions!). But with only a very few exceptions--and those almost exclusively in hunters or dressage and almost exclusively WBs, it seems to me--no Appaloosa, Pinto, Paint or Palomino crosses have reached a kind of "famous" level in eventing or jumpers, and very few in dressage or hunters.

        Is there a particular reason, do you think? Any of the following?

        A. With even just a smidgen of colored blood, the result lacks sufficient talent.
        B. Not enough of them are being bred, so the odds are against one having enough talent to get to the top.
        C. The WAY they are produced (what is crossed to get them) precludes producing top-level talent.
        D. Riders capable of or seriously looking to get to the top won't give them a second glance, so they never get the opportunity to prove their talent.
        E. No one (or just very few) buy them or breed them as potential top-level talent, so they become self-fulfilling proficies.
        F. Those who like them can't afford to (or just don't care to) take them as far as they might go (in those particular sports, that is).
        G. Something else.

        Again, just curious as I wait for the rain to end so I can pick up a load of hay.
        I would guess a combination of C, E, and F.

        When someone first comes to the sport, the thing that jumps out is color. Some people never get past that, even though they become breeders. What they look for is COLOR, and performance is incidental. A true measure of performance is open competition, not breed competition.

        I honestly do not have a color bias (my first horse was a palomino paint), but when judging, I see very few horses of color that perform well enough for me to use them in the higher placings. It seems colored horses are more numerous in the lower levels, where what we used to call a "grade" blooded horse provides a more suitable ride for lower level riders.

        Interestingly, this applies more to horses than ponies. Colored ponies don't seem to lack in quality across the board, the way colored horses seem to.

        I guess if you purposefully went toward PERFORMING color, you could manage to produce some nice horses (Art Deco comes to mind). Otherwise, I'd have to look at the performance records of the sires and dams being used, and conclude that there really isn't much there to begin with.
        Inner Bay Equestrian


          woweezowee you've unintentionally illustrated one of the main problems facing pinto warmblood/sporthorse breeders, as far as stereotyping and prejudice. This was what was touched on earlier, by JB, myself and others.

          There are many people like you and your family member who see a pinto, and think Paint. Because Paints are mostly viewed negatively in the warmblood/sporthorse world (and aren't accepted into most of the respected registries), it can lead to stereotyping and prejudice against all pintos, when people see them and automatically assume they must be Paints.
          I know the difference between a pinto and a paint

          (even though I incorrectly said "YET I am not in the market for a horse but my jaw drops every time I see a paint in the ring or for sale online" (and I meant that in a positive, "so jealous I don't have that horse" jaw-dropping way))

          But, it proves that even some experienced horse people aren't aware that pinto coloring isn't genetically unique to stock horses AND in my family's case, that people aren't of this (as in this thread) : the amount of people who are pushing for "colour blind" or at least colour neutral treatment.

          BTW, I am looking for a pinto sportpony/part welsh stallion for my mare. Any suggestions?
          Vixen Run Farm: Breeding and training ponies for the hunter ring!
          Breeder of the 2008 PAHBF's Best PA Bred Pony!


            My Puchi Trap mare is dual registered as a Paint with the APHA in the Regular Registry so any/all of her offspring by a TB stallon, can achieve dual registration status - either Breeding Stock or Regular Registry - depending on how much white they have

            A huge portion of my buying market used to be the Paint people, looking for a full TB for the HUS classes, that also had APHA papers. They did find though that most trainers tried to train the yearling and 2 year old TB's in the same way as they trained the yearling and 2 year old APHA youngsters. The trainers didnt appear to be willing to change their training methods to accomodate the different TB way of doing things and the TB youngsters didnt thrive on the box they were being asked to squish into and so the full TB's fell out of favor rather quickly with the APHA crowd for the HUS classes ...

            True Colours Farm on Facebook


     may not be seeing them at Devon lately, but they have won! Again, one has to breed for conformation and quality first, not color........and then pray the "spots" land in the right place....
              We were very fortuate with Claim to Fame. Not only did he WIN at Devon (came in RIGHT behind Kenny Wheeler in Best Young Horse TOO!)......he also WON MANY TIMES IN conformation Models (Green Conformation divisions)........beating an ENTIRE class of SOLID horses!!!
              It's just very hard to get the quality, conformation, color in the right places and then money to campaign them (these days especially) !! BUT>>>>>it can be done! Many of his foals have done well too........they're finally just getting into the ring u/s now!

              I'll add a photo of his latest daughter........I have high hopes for her too! (the photo thingy wasn't working....I'll add it later)
              www.flyingcolorsfarm.comHome of pinto stallion Claim to Fame and his homozygous son, Counterclaim. Friend us on Facebook!!/pages/Fl...04678589573428