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"Coloured" 3/4-7/8th TB or WB but none/few at the top?

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    #41
    According to someone on H & H, Pippa Funnell evented a skewbald mare a while back.

    I think the Brits have a great deal less prejudice about piebalds and skewbalds than we do over here. Can't remember where I saw it, but there is a WB breeding place in the UK that stands a couple of colored stallions for dressage. I simply cannot imagine an GP American dressage rider on a pinto, no matter how well bred.

    Comment


      #42
      In the 90's Pippa Funnel evented a gelding named Bits and Pieces at 4* level. He was part Tinker Pony.

      Comment


        #43
        Interestingly enough though..Many FEI top ponies are coloured.. Particularly A grade showjumpers in Uk and Ireland!
        www.australiancolouredperformancehorses.com.au

        Comment


          #44
          Gandalf, who Mark rode at Beijing is actually Pinto bred.. But is solid. (I dont think he is greyed out..I think he just didnt get the tobi gene from his sire.)

          http://www.pintadodesperado.com/abou...odesperado.htm

          http://www.pintadodesperado.com/olym...oddgandalf.htm
          www.australiancolouredperformancehorses.com.au

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            #45
            I breed spotted Holsteiners,.. hardest is to breed the #'s needed, afford to make/promote them in these large numbers and be willing to sell your best stock. Whew! Tall order. every time I get ahead another generation, it's hard to sell because they are so much better than the last! It's 20+ years in the making and feel like I'm just getting started.

            A solid mare (bummer), full sister to one of my spotted stallions went advanced with junior owner/rider (eventing). Won some championships, year end awards, etc..

            My latest spotted colt (yearling) has a Verband HOL stam (St Pr imported dam) and sire line to Corde; only 4% appaloosa and kept the color. He'll produce color at 2% and make some great pedigrees. My foals end up primarily in the hunters. Though I do have a Landgraf grandaughter that is white with black spots (4 years) and headed for the jumpers.

            I've never given up on having a super pedigree, type combination and anything else I would consider in a normal breeding. Sometimes it just takes longer. One stallion I have owned for 10 years and just finally breeding him to a mare; I never had the right mare for him before. This one was World Cup qualified (jumper) , has a famous stam (242) and a great pedigree AND a great type cross for him... movement, style, conformation and temperament. Fingers crossed for a blanketed filly. Want that stam!

            g

            www.cloverlone.com - Spotted Holsteiner Sport Horses

            Comment


              #46
              Indeed!.. and you have a great reputation in our area of interest!..
              Our appaloosa sporthorses bloodlines include Sandro Hit, Earl, Balougran Z, ..its great fun!
              We find them really quite marketable.
              www.australiancolouredperformancehorses.com.au

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                #47
                It is not, as people mistakenly think, the same as the Dalmatian color pattern (which is basically a white dog with black spots). You could think of a Harlequin as a black dog wearing a torn white overcoat.
                Actually the dal coat is very similar. First you have a base color of black or liver; then you have white from an extreme piebald gene on top of that; then you have a ticking gene that opens holes for the base coat to show through the white, and another to make spots and not flecks.

                From a Bio Med Research Article
                The distinctive coat pattern of a Dalmatian is the result of the interaction of several genes. Specifically, it is known the extreme piebald allele of the Piebald locus, in conjunction with the ticked allele of the Ticking locus, and nonflecked allele of the Flecking locus, produces pigmented spots on a white background [1]. The color of the pigmented spots in registered Dalmatians is black or liver [2], but the locus responsible for the color variation has not been identified in the Dalmatian
                * * * *
                All Dalmatians are homozygous for the Piebald, Ticking, and Flecking loci (or they would not display the classic spotting pattern) complicating characterization of these loci through standard techniques, such as linkage analysis, since there is not a segregating phenotype to detect. However, black and liver spot color is a detectable phenotype that segregates in Mendelian fashion.

                Comment


                  #48
                  KWPN has the Samber line. They are top quality colored horses.

                  Comment


                    #49
                    Well I love this guy:

                    http://www.stallionai.com/documents/circus.pdf

                    Not only is he a stallion but his competition record speaks for itself.

                    A colored stallion Glenhill Gold was 8th in the World Cup Qualifier af Fairyhouse last week.

                    Also Park Pilot won the CCI** after coming back from a back injury.

                    Terri
                    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                      Actually the dal coat is very similar. First you have a base color of black or liver; then you have white from an extreme piebald gene on top of that; then you have a ticking gene that opens holes for the base coat to show through the white, and another to make spots and not flecks.

                      From a Bio Med Research Article
                      Interesting, Thank you. I was looking online on sites like IVIS for an article about the uniqueness of the Harlequin color pattern… haven’t found one, got sidetracked by this article, which references the link between Merles / albinos and deafness.

                      In: Braund's Clinical Neurology in Small Animals: Localization, Diagnosis and Treatment, Vite C.H. (Ed.)
                      International Veterinary Information Service, Ithaca NY (www.ivis.org), 2003; A3222.0203
                      Neuropathic Disorders (Last Updated: 6-Feb-2003)
                      K. G. Braund


                      I have discussions published in some of the Great Dane breed books, but I am not a typist and am not re-typing them here on a horse forum.

                      I wonder, do equine breeders run across deafness related to color? You read about the bias against certain colors, is that because the color is (or is thought to be) linked to other problems? And if so, how do breeders screen to avoid the problems?

                      In canines we do so many tests to screen for heritable problems. Not sure about the credible science behind the tests we do, some seem useless in the context of predicting what the animal will not transmit and others seem to do more harm than good, but I have never heard of equine breeders screening to avoid transmitting things like wobblers, cataracts, hip or elbow dysplasia, kidney disease, cardiomyopathy or thyroid problems.
                      Logres Farm on Facebook
                      http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                      http://logresdobermans.com/

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                        #51
                        cloverlone - I L-O-V-E what you are producing!!! Fabulous colouring in talented and athletic bodies - you cant beat that combination!

                        I wonder, do equine breeders run across deafness related to color?
                        Yes.

                        The Whatever mare I imported from New Zealand a few years ago was deaf, so was her dam, so was her full sibling. She had the splash gene which made the facial markings (an apron face which is more extensive and larger than a bald face) go right above eye level, to ear level. It is thought that that extensive a facial marking actually kills off the nerve ends going to the ears, hence the deafness associated with the splash gene / apron faces. The Gunner line of reining horses are usually deaf as well (Gunner is also deaf). Generally how this goes with these lines is that if the splash gene is produced, the foal will be deaf

                        But funnily enough, in other splash producing stallions (Sinatra's Reply being one of them) he is splash and he produces splash foals, but he isnt and his foals arent deaf that we know of so no idea why one bloodline produces deafness and the other one doesnt ...
                        www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                        www.truecoloursproducts.com

                        True Colours Farm on Facebook

                        Comment


                          #52
                          I've had spotted Hol since late 80's and never associated any inherited health problems.

                          They may be more picky about their owners; they want 'a' person as their rider. hmmm.. I could say that for my imported HOL as well... I'll say they do better with an owner/rider.

                          Surefooted! I used to climb into the mountains with my first stallion. He could be trusted as a guide to get us home; he was also very aware of oncoming traffic. No problem with his hearing! He could pick up mountain bikes 10 minutes out.

                          As a group, I think they jump/gallop in mud better than the plain bay breeding. At 85-96% Hol ,. they are really just Holsteiners.

                          g


                          www.cloverlone.com - Spotted Holsteiner Sport Horses

                          Comment


                            #53
                            QUOTE:
                            I wonder, do equine breeders run across deafness related to color? You read about the bias against certain colors, is that because the color is (or is thought to be) linked to other problems? And if so, how do breeders screen to avoid the problems?


                            Deafness problems:Just in the splash overo pattern. Unlike the leathal white in the frame overo pattern, there is no DNA test for this problem yet.
                            With different coat patterns they have different sources. Tobiano and sabino only affect protein (coat color) regulation and there are no problems/defects associated with them. Frame is a result of a mutation in the helix pattern so it is an actual "defect" in the DNA and thus has birth defects associated with it in it's homozygous form. Splash is unknown yet. Homozygous Appaloosas have a high incidence of uveits ("moon blindness") though I don't know enough about Appys to know if this is associated with only certain coat patterns or not.
                            Providence Farm
                            http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

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                              #54
                              Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                              I think the Brits have a great deal less prejudice about piebalds and skewbalds than we do over here.
                              Yep, they have a large contingency of pinto cob-types that are fantastic creatures who can do and are used for all sorts of fun things Over here, "color" is typically thought of as belong to the stock-type horses which just aren't suitable (in general!) for the sporthorse disciplines we're talking about here.

                              Originally posted by Cartier View Post
                              I wonder, do equine breeders run across deafness related to color? You read about the bias against certain colors, is that because the color is (or is thought to be) linked to other problems? And if so, how do breeders screen to avoid the problems?
                              Deafness exists when you have the Splash gene involved - that's all though. It's not a guarantee, not even if the horse is homozygous Splash. It only occurs when the "lack of pigment" (ie white) makes its way into the inner ear (has little to do with the actual ear color) and causes deafness. You can't screen for it though. Even if/when there is a test for Splash itself (currently being worked on I believe), I think they will find that there isn't a deaf "switch" they can test for, it's all about how the cells migrate during fetal formation.

                              Some people love working with the deaf horses since noise stimulus doesn't affect them. Others hate it as they feel the horses are more visually stimulated as a result.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                                #55
                                Glitter Please, now deceased, competed to GP dressage I believe. He was bought and trained by Gigi Nutter as a yearling. He was a Palomino Thoroughbred and was bred for a few years before his demise.
                                PennyG

                                Comment


                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                                  Deafness exists when you have the Splash gene involved - that's all though. It's not a guarantee, not even if the horse is homozygous Splash. It only occurs when the "lack of pigment" (ie white) makes its way into the inner ear (has little to do with the actual ear color) and causes deafness. You can't screen for it though. Even if/when there is a test for Splash itself (currently being worked on I believe), I think they will find that there isn't a deaf "switch" they can test for, it's all about how the cells migrate during fetal formation.
                                  This is also true in Dals. If the extreme piebald gene prevents the creation of enough stem cells that produce melanine and the nerves in the inner ear (same stem cells) to make the migration all the way to the inner ear, then the dog will be deaf. Given that all Dals have the extreme piebald gene homozygously, deafness cannot be bred out without losing the coat.

                                  Funny thing about fetal cell migration for color--the reason that so many non colored horses (and dogs) have white only on their faces and feet is that there aren't enough color stem cells to make it all the way to the extremities. And the migration occurs in on each side separately, which is why so much color is asymmetrical.

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                                    This is also true in Dals. If the extreme piebald gene prevents the creation of enough stem cells that produce melanine and the nerves in the inner ear (same stem cells) to make the migration all the way to the inner ear, then the dog will be deaf. Given that all Dals have the extreme piebald gene homozygously, deafness cannot be bred out without losing the coat.

                                    Funny thing about fetal cell migration for color--the reason that so many non colored horses (and dogs) have white only on their faces and feet is that there aren't enough color stem cells to make it all the way to the extremities. And the migration occurs in on each side separately, which is why so much color is asymmetrical.
                                    Cloverlone, I have admired your horses for a number of years! The spotties are just something very special.

                                    FYI, while there are still only a few Knabstruppers yet in N. America, I am very happy to report that several of them are competing in FEI levels in dressage and Level 6 and above in show jumping!
                                    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

                                    Comment


                                      #58
                                      [QUOTE=JB;4147189]Yep, they have a large contingency of pinto cob-types that are fantastic creatures who can do and are used for all sorts of fun things Over here, "color" is typically thought of as belong to the stock-type horses which just aren't suitable (in general!) for the sporthorse disciplines we're talking about here.



                                      I posted some above that are used for more than just "fun things". And someone posted a link to Utah who is indeed competing at a high level in SJ.

                                      Regardless of where they came from they are in higher levels of sport over here.

                                      Terri
                                      COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                                      "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                                      Comment


                                        #59
                                        There are a few coloured horses competing at top level in showjumping, eventing and dressage. In 1970 Lorna Clark rode Poppadom, a coloured mare, to win Burghley.

                                        In the 1980s Pippa Funnell competed a coloured called Bits and Pieces at 4**** eventing.
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhB7UTrxJ18

                                        Then there are the two current GP showjumping stallions O'Combo de L'eau and Utah Van Erpekom, both competing international Grand Prix.

                                        There is a fabulous tobiano stallion called Tamberonie who is competing in dressage at small tour level and is on the UK 2012 pathway so is considered one of the best young dressage horses in the country. Sadly he doesn't stand at stud. There is a buckskin gelding called Fiddlesticks that also competes small tour.

                                        I think the main reason there aren't more coloured at the top of the sport is firstly because there are relatively few coloureds being bred compared to non-coloureds. And I also think that there are a depressingly large number of breeders, past and present, who bred for colour at the expense of quality. Fortunately now the quality of coloured horses is improving and there are some out there that are outstanding. Since the popularity of coloured horses is very high I'm sure that there will be more coloured world class athletes appearing in the next few years.

                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          And I also think that there are a depressingly large number of breeders, past and present, who bred for colour at the expense of quality. Fortunately now the quality of coloured horses is improving and there are some out there that are outstanding. Since the popularity of coloured horses is very high I'm sure that there will be more coloured world class athletes appearing in the next few years.
                                          And I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head perfectly with these comments ...

                                          I agree 100%
                                          www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                          www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                          True Colours Farm on Facebook

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