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Are any of these mares worthy of breeding for jumper potential?

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  • Are any of these mares worthy of breeding for jumper potential?

    I have three mares. All were purchased for their performance ability...not necessarily as brood mares. They have each been or are successful to 1.40, good personalities and work ethics. With that said, I do not believe you should breed them just because you CAN. You should breed them if they have a pedigree and individual traits worthy of trying to replicate. With that said, my strongest asset is the fact that I admit to knowing little and I have no qualms about asking experts for advice. So, my question...are any of these pedigrees something I might try to breed from and if so, which ones or in what order of preference?

    at www.allpedigree.com they are:

    Scarlet64 (by Mezcalero); http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/scarlet64

    Tasja Marjos (by Karandasj) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tasja+marjos

    and

    Rilory (by Calvados) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rilory

    If any are worth trying to breed, I will start another thread asking about appropriate stallions!

    Thanks so much for any assistance you might throw my way!

  • #2
    Originally posted by kippermom View Post
    I have three mares. All were purchased for their performance ability...not necessarily as brood mares. They have each been or are successful to 1.40, good personalities and work ethics. With that said, I do not believe you should breed them just because you CAN. You should breed them if they have a pedigree and individual traits worthy of trying to replicate. With that said, my strongest asset is the fact that I admit to knowing little and I have no qualms about asking experts for advice. So, my question...are any of these pedigrees something I might try to breed from and if so, which ones or in what order of preference?

    at www.allpedigree.com they are:

    Scarlet64 (by Mezcalero); http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/scarlet64

    Tasja Marjos (by Karandasj) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tasja+marjos

    and

    Rilory (by Calvados) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rilory

    If any are worth trying to breed, I will start another thread asking about appropriate stallions!

    Thanks so much for any assistance you might throw my way!
    I would be happy to take #1 and #3 off of your hands since Voltaire, Ramiro Z, Calvados, Nimmerdor and Ekstein are just soooo not "in" this year. You just might end up with a jumping machine and I'm sure that you don'twant that!
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
    LIKE us on Facebook!

    Comment


    • #3
      maybe change the title a little bit?

      Since these are dutch mares, if you added "dutch mares" to your title, you might get more responses and capture the interest of the targeted market. Also maybe add the word jumper?

      I breed for dressage horses, so my lines are mainly dressage with jumpers thrown in. No expert here, but it looks like you've got some really good older grand prix jumping lines there, plus your mares have proven themselves in performance. What would your breeding goals be?

      Are you mares more old fashioned in appearance? If you could post pictures of your mares, that would be helpful for other people to make suggestions.

      Comment


      • #4
        Without seeing photos its hard to make any suggestions, but it looks like you have 3 well bred mares who are successful in sport. Are any of them NOT worthy of being bred? If we aim to breed sport horses, starting with horses successful in sport is a good place to start I'd say! Good luck, looks like a good start for a new venture.
        Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

        http://www.halcyon-hill.com

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          REPOST - Are any of these Dutch mares worthy of breeding for jumper potential?

          I have renamed and reposted this thread as a member suggested....


          I have three mares. All were purchased for their performance ability...not necessarily as brood mares. They have each been or are successful to 1.40, good personalities and work ethics. With that said, I do not believe you should breed them just because you CAN. You should breed them if they have a pedigree and individual traits worthy of trying to replicate. With that said, my strongest asset is the fact that I admit to knowing little and I have no qualms about asking experts for advice. So, my question...are any of these pedigrees something I might try to breed from and if so, which ones or in what order of preference?

          at www.allpedigree.com they are:

          Scarlet64 (by Mezcalero); http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/scarlet64

          Tasja Marjos (by Karandasj) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tasja+marjos

          and

          Rilory (by Calvados) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rilory

          If any are worth trying to breed, I will start another thread asking about appropriate stallions!

          Thanks so much for any assistance you might throw my way!

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Fantastic...thanks for the suggestion. I started another thread with a more descriptive title to invite opinions from those with a greater interest/expertise in Dutch jumper lines.

            Comment


            • #7
              Lovely jumper pedigrees!! I'd be happy to take one off your hands if ever need be! lol I would definitely be looking to beed in some blood, esp your mare, Scarlet, she sounds like she could be on the heavier side. Do you have pics to go with these drool worthy pedigrees!!! It's just not fair to post the pedigree without pics

              I'm going to sound like a broken record probably but seriously take a good look at Torino for producing a jumper...same with Quidam Junior and Cobra One all stand at www.jumpstartfarm.com these are some serious jumper pedigrees as well. Torino can certainly back it up with a drool worthy pedigree (Heartbreaker/Cassini I/Dinar/Marco Polo) as well as ability, production and the beginnings of a great performance career. Quidam Junior has one of my all time favorite sires and his motherline...you just can't beat it, Narcotique produced only international level showjumpers...and a 3? stallion sons. Cobra One, though not proven yet and just starting his performance career, has an exceptional pedigree (the famous Capitol/Caletto nick that produced horses like Indoctro, Carthago, Cassini I & II, Dobel's Cento and others) beautiful conformation, a huge jump, and dynamic gaits....and a very kind temperament...the quietest stallion I have ever known! Cobra and Torino are fresh semen options and Quidam Junior has exceptional frozen semen...I was able to get my 22 yr old mare pregnant first try with one dose and this after being barren for 2 1/2 years. Loads of frozen semen options as well. I guess I am partial and I'll give you more ideas for stallions once I've taken time to think carefully about them. Jump Start stallions always just come to mind first because I used 3 of their stallions last year and had a very good experience. Good luck and CONGRATS on having such valuable bloodlines to start with!

              Comment


              • #8
                Sure, the bloodlines are worthy. I need to look at the motherlines in more detail (sorry ... didn't have time to tonight). The mares sound like they have the performance to back them up. Do you happen to have conformation photos?

                If you are interested in breeding, a good starting point would be to present them at a KWPN keuring this summer/fall and get an opinion on their gaits and conformation. This is also a great opportunity to meet other breeders in your area and be able to chat about horses and breeding. Great learning experience!

                Comment


                • #9
                  The paardenfokken.nl database may be a better resource to do some research on your mares and their motherlines. The first mare looks pretty impressive to me.
                  I'd love to see photos of the Karandasj mare! I'll happily take her off your hands, sight unseen.
                  Tracy Geller
                  www.sixpoundfarm.com
                  Find me on Facebook!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We will be interested in seeing which stallions are suggested for your third mare. We too have Ekstein and Calvados in our herd.
                    Sakura Hill Farm
                    Now on Facebook

                    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Pedigree vs performance

                      This is a clear situation where these mares are absolutely worthy of breeding, regardless of their pedigree. They have performad better the 99.99% of all broodmares out there (even mares with "stellar" bloodlines). Furthermore, jumping is primarily inherited through the dam's side.
                      Andras
                      http://www.prairiepinesfarm.com
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4SfHHhoc_8
                      http://www.andrasszieberthtraining.blogspot.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You have got to be kidding All three are to die for!1 How about some pictures?
                        http://community.webshots.com/user/summitspringsfarm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Tasja mare has three crosses to Amor but only two show up in shaded background.

                          I'd seek input from Willy Arts on these mares.

                          The Scarlett horse pedigree comes up as a young filly.
                          Last edited by Oakstable; May. 29, 2009, 12:02 PM.
                          www.oakhollowstable.blogspot.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sixpoundfarm View Post
                            The first mare looks pretty impressive to me.
                            I'd love to see photos of the Karandasj mare! I'll happily take her off your hands, sight unseen.
                            6# - I won't be as picky - I would take anyone of them also sight unseen.

                            kippermom-nice bred mares!!! Want to share????
                            Photos and videos of my beloved boys and girls!
                            http://community.webshots.com/user/cathykb
                            http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i296/cathykb/
                            http://www.clipshack.com/9424

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CathyKb View Post
                              6# - I won't be as picky - I would take anyone of them also sight unseen.

                              kippermom-nice bred mares!!! Want to share????
                              LOL!
                              I find Karandasj really interesting, since his dam comes from the same Lottie motherline as my favorite girl.
                              I think I may have to try some linebreeding at some point.
                              Tracy Geller
                              www.sixpoundfarm.com
                              Find me on Facebook!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Welcome to the forums kippermom!

                                We merged your two threads together to avoid duplication and changed the title for you.

                                For future reference, you can change the title of a thread you've started anytime by clicking on the "edit" button from the lower right hand corner of your first post.

                                Then click on "go advanced," which will give you the option to change your title.

                                Here's a link to some FAQs on some of the other tools the board features if you want to learn more.

                                Thanks and welcome aboard!
                                Mod 1

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by showjumpers66 View Post
                                  Sure, the bloodlines are worthy. I need to look at the motherlines in more detail (sorry ... didn't have time to tonight). The mares sound like they have the performance to back them up. Do you happen to have conformation photos?

                                  If you are interested in breeding, a good starting point would be to present them at a KWPN keuring this summer/fall and get an opinion on their gaits and conformation. This is also a great opportunity to meet other breeders in your area and be able to chat about horses and breeding. Great learning experience!
                                  I would also like to see pics before saying "yay or nay" on any of them.

                                  Showjumper: you have said it best IMO
                                  Draumr Hesta Farm
                                  "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                                  Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by szipi View Post
                                    This is a clear situation where these mares are absolutely worthy of breeding, regardless of their pedigree. They have performad better the 99.99% of all broodmares out there (even mares with "stellar" bloodlines). Furthermore, jumping is primarily inherited through the dam's side.
                                    This might have been a valid comment if it did not have the "regardless of their pedigree" thrown in. Jumping is a heritable trait. And you always breed to the dam's side of any pedigree. But these other generalities don't always mean you will get a satisfactory result.

                                    These are Dutch mares and appear of good breeding. Best advice? They should be bred to Dutch stallions so that the foals will get Dutch papers.
                                    Discipline is the Bridge between Dreams and Accomplishments

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Oakstable...You caught me...Scarlet is just 2. We bred for her as well as her full sister of the same age (Lena). (ET double ovulation etc.) so they are a "matched set". (IJF nominated but not registered as anything)

                                      We had been told that some breeders will breed a filly when they are just 3 or 4 before they go under saddle so I was trying to ascertain whether it made any sense to do that with one of the 2 year olds or if either of the older mares (both are 8) had adequate pedigrees to breed them as well or instead of the Mezcalero fillys, at least for the time being. I guess I am trying to get a handle on what I have here with these 4 mares by way of breeding quality....or if I just need to look elsewhere for young prospects.

                                      The Karandasj mare was presented and bred twice in Holland (Elite?) before we imported her last year for 1.40 but the other three have not so I will look into the possibility of doing so here.

                                      I appreciate the feedback and will try to get some pics together as that seems to be the next step in figuring out what to do and who to do it with!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Regarding the third mare:

                                        I purchased a 3 year old Calvados (X Wolfgang X Ulft) mare in Holland from Team Nijhof and bred her prior to importing her to the states. I bred her to Concorde (who btw is even nicer looking in person than the pictures) on the recommendation of Jeannette at Team Nijhof and it appears so far that the match was good. The filly (who is 2) has a great temperament, easily handled and trained, and beautifully put together. I would repeat the breeding but the Calvados mare has now started her performance career.

                                        Anyways very nice mares.
                                        Richard, Approved Black KWPN Stallion
                                        Website
                                        and Facebook page
                                        Oh Kaptain Underpants SFS, Approved BRp pony stallion
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