• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What color is this PONY?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What color is this PONY?

    Okay, he's changed colors WAY too much so I am just going to list them... I'm trying to market him accurately but he keeps changing!!! Plus, I'm thinking I need to do a color change on his papers as he's listed as Black... Ugh!

    Born/Weanling - JET Black
    Foal - Black w/ Dun points (ears, eyes, around legs)
    First Winter - Blackish Brown - Looked like an Angus calf!
    Spring/Yearling - Almost a dark Dappled Buckskin??? Some people said Smokey Buckskin...
    Yearling Winter - Looked like a Black Bay
    Spring/2 yr old - Shed out Darker not nearly as many dun points, more like a Chocolate Brown.
    Winter/2.5 yr old- Again, Blackish Brown (not really Bay)

    *** Currently at just 3 he is shedding out a Dark Chocolate again, with some dun points (eyes, nose, under tail). I mean it's really pretty but I have NO clue what to call him (and was honestly hoping for that buckskin again). Throughout all of this his mane/tail has stayed a bit lighter brown than the darkest parts of his body (though he now has no mane as it's now pulled for showing this year).

    He is out of a Dun Paint mare, by a Black Welsh. This was her only foal to date and the Stallion was gelded so this was also his only foal.

    I am clueless as I'm not used to QH/Paint coloring, nor the Welsh M/P for that matter. The whole Buckskin year REALLY through me off!!!

    SORRY, the pictures were taken before he finished shedding out (taken about 3 1/2 weeks ago). As mentioned, he IS shedding out like a Chocolate color with dun points.

    What would YOU call him?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by BSFKimbees; May. 19, 2009, 12:33 AM.
    "There is dignity in lightness, truth in patience,
    but only ignorance in force"... www.cedarpinefarm.com

  • #2
    By "dun" for the mare, do you mean bay dun or red dun? Do you have a picture? What about the stallion - was he REALLY black, or could he have been smoky black?

    By "dun points" on the horse in question, do you mean they are lighter?

    Without knowing anything else, he looks like a dark seal brown.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment


    • #3
      Or are you using Dun to indicate 'creme carrying bay (aka buckskin)' as the welsh breeders do? I see you mentioned hoping he was buckskin, which wouldn't be produced by true Dun. I also think he looks dark seal brown right now... only way to know for sure is test, but with a gelding it's a bit more of a moot point.
      RIP Adriane, aka Eyesontheground, 6/4/83-9/14/09
      Proudly owned by:
      Veronica II (Vienna Waltz/Woermann)

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Okay, the Dam is plain old Dun with a dorsal stripe. Sire is a true black (I own him now, had him gelded).

        I did not breed this pony, I took him in as a weanling (later bought his Sire) and he just happens to have some "stuff"... Love him to death.

        I'm leaning to a Seal Brown as well. Is this often produced with a Dun and a Black? I know NOTHING about color genetics (as you can probably tell). I have produced nothing but Bay's and Chestnut's, occasionally a Gray and a Black.

        Thanks!
        "There is dignity in lightness, truth in patience,
        but only ignorance in force"... www.cedarpinefarm.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Still need a picture of the dam "plain ol dun with a dorsal stripe" could be a light bay with strong countershading.

          Brown is recessive to bay, so the dam might have been bay dun (and not passed the dun on), or brown dun (and not passed dun on) and passed the brown gene on. If she's really bay, the brown will hide.

          The black stallion isn't a factor, assuming he's really E?aa.
          ______________________________
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Called her owner, she doesn't know exactly what she is and can't send me any photos. Nice huh?

            I'll try to get over there in the AM and take one. She's not a Red Dun, that much I know, she's rather typical of MOST Dun's that I've seen, like a light golden brown (THE COLOR OF HOMADE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES)...

            Wish I knew more. Her APHA papers just say Dun, just looked them up online.

            Photo is of Sire, will get Dam tomorrow hopefully.
            Attached Files
            "There is dignity in lightness, truth in patience,
            but only ignorance in force"... www.cedarpinefarm.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Looks like a brown or maybe a smokey black to me...definitely not a dun. Now if the stallion was a buckskin (cream dilute) and not a dun (totally different color), than he could be a smokey black.

              Comment


              • #8
                I may be making this too simple and if so please do tell me. All black foals I have ever looked after or seen turn some very strange colours from a couple of months old and take up to 2 years to form their proper grown up coat. This normally starts by developing a fluffy almost ginger coat which then gradually reveils the black undeneath. Usually the first places to change are round the eyes and nose. I could easily describe a weanling as being golden almost dun like as the black true coat comes through. The photos look like a black coat which having been bleeched in the sun as taken a slight bronze hew to it. My black horse can turn a bit ginger in winter sun if we get several days of it.
                As I said I may be making a complicated colour question way to simple and be missing the details

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Juniberry View Post
                  I may be making this too simple and if so please do tell me. All black foals I have ever looked after or seen turn some very strange colours from a couple of months old and take up to 2 years to form their proper grown up coat. This normally starts by developing a fluffy almost ginger coat which then gradually reveils the black undeneath. Usually the first places to change are round the eyes and nose. I could easily describe a weanling as being golden almost dun like as the black true coat comes through. The photos look like a black coat which having been bleeched in the sun as taken a slight bronze hew to it. My black horse can turn a bit ginger in winter sun if we get several days of it.

                  As I said I may be making a complicated colour question way to simple and be missing the details
                  Color question, complicated? Nawwww!

                  Black horses are generally born a mousy color - grayish or brownish or a little mix, but "mousy" best describes it. I haven't really seen it take 2 years for it to become apparent they are really black - usually a first foal shed, or the yearling Spring shed at the latest, shows the true black color. The foal coat bleaches easily though, so they can look golden indeed before shedding to reveal a black coat. But since many foals shed right in the heat of Summer, they can easily start bleaching again pretty quickly.

                  There is nothing hard and fast when it comes to how long it takes a horse to settle into his adult color. IME the black-based colors do that sooner than the reds, but any given situation could be the reverse.
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For a sale ad, I'd just say "brown".

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I'd say BROWN too... lol. He's off again. I swear, I am going to clip him next Spring and put a sheet on him all Summer!!!

                      He is almost completely shed out now (at just 3) and he's a consistent dark Chocolate (and I mean Dark, not black as I have his Sire and he is jet BLACK right now). Chocolate legs, chocolate body - definately not a bay. Closer you get to his skin the darker it is.

                      He has bright gold around his eyes, nose, tail area and wherever his coat is VERY short (and quite possibly compromised by fluid secretions?). He has black skin everywhere as he's almost completely solid other than a slight white on his right rear (which has a 1/2 light hoof).

                      Ugh, I am a WB breeder so I don't get these funky colors...

                      Oh, and I am VERY embarrassed to say that his Dam is actually a buckskin, not Dun. Does this make a difference as to what he COULD be? Will I EVER know for sure?

                      Since he's a gelding, I suppose it really doesn't matter anyway, but thank you everyone for replying.

                      Quite frankly I secretly hope he doesn't sell as he is very much so the best guy I have EVER brought along for the Hunters... He just gets it. May keep my odd little guy for a while and take him on as MY personal pony - Hey, Karen O'Connor did it! Always wanted one as a kid so WHY NOT!
                      "There is dignity in lightness, truth in patience,
                      but only ignorance in force"... www.cedarpinefarm.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes it does make a WORLD of difference that the dam is buckskin and not dun. It sounds like your horse is probably a smoky black to me. I would still LOVE to see pictures though.

                        ETA:Saw pictures (missed them the first time through as they did not load) and yes I think he is either a dark buckskin or a smoky black.
                        Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
                        http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would say smokey black. Looks like the best way to tell is to look at his eyes. If his eyes are a shade lighter than the normal brown horse eye color; more like an amber then he probably carries the creme gene and is smokey black.

                          http://www.horsecolor.com/dilutions/...smokyblack.htm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If he was born black, then he IS black, genetically speaking. Not bay, not brown, not any kind of buckskin or dun, or anything else. None of those things are born looking black.

                            Blacks are terribly prone to sunbleaching and fading and all of that. It can be remarkable. They can end up looking like any number of things (I've seen Friesians that looked bay after a summer on pasture) but they are still black.

                            The only thing a black horse can be hiding is a cream gene, which would make him a smoky black. But if he's a gelding, it hardly matters one way or the other. The only reason you'd care is if he were a stallion prospect. Or if you were just dying of curiosity. The test for the cream gene is only $25.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              But once the Winter coat is shed, that gives you a really good indication or what their color really is - hasn't had a chance to bleach yet.

                              He sounds like either dark sooty buckskin, or smoky black. Maybe smoky brown, hard to say.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Can ya tell, I AM dying of curiosity... As mentioned, I don't get these colors with what I produce. I find it to be rather neat.

                                My Farrier today said he's Grulla... OMG no he isn't. Just goes to show how some people can easily mistake and register the wrong color, such as his Dam was registered incorrectly. He did kind of tilt his head when he said it though.

                                I am going to go with the majority (after I stated the mare's true color) that say smoky black. And thnx for the link Ride4life... Interesting as his eyes are a very pretty Amber color.

                                Though when it all comes down to it, "color ain't gonna sell him"... And obviously he's not going to reproduce.

                                I'm very happy I started this thread and thank everyone for responding!

                                HAPPY SUMMER!
                                "There is dignity in lightness, truth in patience,
                                but only ignorance in force"... www.cedarpinefarm.com

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X